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Look, Red-staters, you can't have it both ways. This issue is emblematic of the must-work-for-pay fallacy. If you want EVERY person who gets a hot meal and a roof over his head to WORK for it, you are going to get some down at the bottom end who are not capable of doing the job well. The work those people do is going to ripple down to affect your life in some way or another. They will answer your call to an 800-number, or do the brake job on your wife's car, or control traffic at a construction site on your way to work. Forcing them to turn up at the work place when they don't want to or are incapable and gum up the job hurts us all in the end. Better, just pay them to stay home.
Shake loose some of the trillions of dollars held in Cayman banks drawing tax-free interest for the Romneys and other fat greedy bastards, and pay a decent living to the incompetent to stay home. Maybe their kids will turn out better if they don't have to live in shame and squalor and indignity, raised by parents who are angry at being forced to do make-work jobs just for employment-rate appearances. The other 80% can do the job just fine by themselves, without the lazy, the insoloent, the stupid, the ignorant, the retarded, the psychotic, the substance abusers, the antisocial, the halt and the lame disrupting the workplace and eroding the prouctivity. Pay them to stay home, instead of paying them to screw things up.
The union is not the issue here. This is about letting the willing, earnest and capable turn the wheels of the world for all of us, without disrupting their productivity by expecting them to be baby sitters for the non-productive, as well.
Give the lazy money just to drink and sit on the porch
Work projects, do not mean they have to be doing anything technical or that anyone depends on.
Give them a shovel or a broom. no work, no govt. hand out.
Even the handicapped can do something.
but this is not about that.
op
What large company does not have any drinkers or substance users?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
Look, Red-staters, you can't have it both ways. This issue is emblematic of the must-work-for-pay fallacy. If you want EVERY person who gets a hot meal and a roof over his head to WORK for it, you are going to get some down at the bottom end who are not capable of doing the job well. The work those people do is going to ripple down to affect your life in some way or another. They will answer your call to an 800-number, or do the brake job on your wife's car, or control traffic at a construction site on your way to work. Forcing them to turn up at the work place when they don't want to or are incapable and gum up the job hurts us all in the end. Better, just pay them to stay home.
Shake loose some of the trillions of dollars held in Cayman banks drawing tax-free interest for the Romneys and other fat greedy bastards, and pay a decent living to the incompetent to stay home. Maybe their kids will turn out better if they don't have to live in shame and squalor and indignity. The other 80% can do the job better by themselves.
Yup. I remember back in the 60s, solicitations to buy Christmas cards that were painted by amputees holding the brush between their toes, or in their teeth, in order to earn enough money for a crust of bread. Ah, yes, those were the good old days, when things were fair and people got what they deserved.
The Egyptians got it right. Just think how many handicapped people we could put to work building pyramids. If some idiot sets a block wrong, and it rolls down the pyramid,and kill s a hundred other people, no big deal -- at least everybody is slaving away from morning til night, that's the important thing by which the value and virtue of our society is measured. (sigh) I sure miss the good old days.
Here's the bottom line, in case you didn't get it. When your wife takes her car in for a brake job, do you want the work done by a guy who resents being there, and doesn't want to work, and is angry and spiteful, and is too stupid or stoned or irresponsible to learn how to do the job right, and has the attitude of just needing to show up in the morning to earn his paycheck? If you have a problem with your bank account, is that the person you want to talk to on the phone about resolving it? With your economic philosophy, that is exactly what you are going to get, and you will have noone to blame but yourself when something goes wrong, because you have created the monster.
Unions breed greed, corruption, and mediocrity. I am not surprised these wastoids got their jobs back. I avoid union products at all costs.
I belonged to a union for twelve years. The good workers could not be compensated more for their good work, and the lazy, inept slobs got paid as much as the good workers, sometimes beating them out of better positions because of seniority!
And only reinstated because of the union. I know cause I have to deal with the teamsters on a day to day basis. Know how the union backs workers even if they screw up. Thats the downfall of unions. A bum is a bum. Fire them.
I don't like this situation, either.
But what torques my jaw is how all of us taxpayers are forced to "back up" the Wall St crooks who sank the economy and demanded the government pay them off, which they did.
Quote:
There are plenty of people out of work that would love a good job and would not be smoking dope on the clock
Agreed. These guys should be looking for work and replaced by more motivated workers. Still, unions do a lot more good than harm.
Sadly, I'm not surprised these guys got their jobs back.
Its strange, someone at my job got fired a few months ago, because when he put his $1 into the vending machine and pushed the button and two items fell out. My company considered that stealing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofarmer
...op
What large company does not have any drinkers or substance users?
Sadly, I'm not surprised these guys got their jobs back.
Its strange, someone at my job got fired a few months ago, because when he put his $1 into the vending machine and pushed the button and two items fell out. My company considered that stealing.
Mmm, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai
Are you serious? I guess the company owns the machines and stocks them for additional profit, not just as a benefit for the employees? Do they count the paper clips and number of TP sheets you use too?
Are you serious? I guess the company owns the machines and stocks them for additional profit, not just as a benefit for the employees? Do they count the paper clips and number of TP sheets you use too?
A company that does that is on the brink of failure. When I worked fast food in the 80s, company was doing great cause it had just opened. Naturally, business dropped off from initial opening and began to level off. Management wanted those initial opening numbers again so they started cutting quality products for cheaper but kept the same prices. Employees went from free meal to half price to full price. So we started drinking water. They then began charging $0.15 for cup and straw if we got water. Within a year after I left, they were shut down. Their homemade chilli was now watered down soup, their burger patties were so full of fat that they shrunk to nearly half size, their homemade root beer wasn't the same because of cutbacks to the mix, and disgruntled employees began stealing. I never saw anyone do horrible stuff to the food ordered by customers. But management made sure to fix their own meal themselves even though it was against company policy. They knew better than to trust us with their food.
As a one time union member (Teamsters) this has been my beef with Unions. They spend a disproportionate time defending the inept, irresponsible worker who should be fired, and not enough on what should be their core mission(s). Ensuring an environmentally safe workplace, and that the workers can get transparency into management costs and get a reasonable share of the wealth from their labor/skills.
When Unions were formed they tended to stick to their directive and then eventually got just as corrupted as any political organization, as the leadership used them for entrenchment via political machinations (a large voting bloc - and 'grow the voting bloc' mentallity - to batter issues of legislation) and played fast and loose in many cases with 'dues' using them for non worker related issues. A 'private piggy bank' to travel / waste on many things unrelated to the worker but self serving for the leadership as they raise THEIR income via lobbying, perks, etc...
If Unions would stick to their primary reason for being created I'd have no problem with them as they are beneficial in countering the aforementioned issues and provide a decent standard of living. Unfortunately, they seem to have lost that (or perhaps it is just what media reports on) and in a global economic environment if they are unwilling to WORK with management, they do everyone a disservice. The reflexive combativeness (where it is still prevalent) is stupidity as the company's in today's world are easily able to pick up and leave.
Where Union's should be focusing (IMHO) are ensuring and exposing A) Slave wage labor cannot be exploited against them by countering the politicians caving to corporate interests and B) Corporate welfare (make sure the total costs of shipping things thousands of miles is not being subsidized by US taxpayers (Corporate welfare). C) Providing pay for skill set and rewarding the multi skilled worker (as long as work environment is safe) for being flexible to address production output needs, and D) that marginal gains from automation get transfered to workers share of wealth output (reduced work time, keeping managements pay in a defined range of ratio to lowest worker, say 20 to 1, etc...
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