Dohoney: Streetcar Has $17.4 Million Shortfall, "Needs More Funding"" (Cincinnati: power lines, crime)

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy

And for the record I am probably as big or bigger of an opponent of sprawl than you are. I believe the Interstates are designed to provide transportation between cities, not spawn strip malls. I don't oppose the project because I am against public transit or urban development, I oppose it because I feel it is enabling downtown to consolidate its hold over the outlying areas of the city and it is funneling resources to a connected few. If the streetcar ran from the hospitals up through Avondale to Bond Hill, which would probably truly help more people, I would be all for it. From one trendy downtown neighborhood to another trendy downtown neighborhood with a route right through an area where speculators have bought up a bunch of old buildings for pennies on the dollar and are expecting a payday? Give me a break.

Well, remember that was the initial plan. But also remember why it was reduced and that there are plans to extend uptown as funds become available. In order for Cincinnati to reverse it's decline it absolutely must have a strong urban core, that's why I am in favor of it.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

Well, remember that was the initial plan. But also remember why it was reduced and that there are plans to extend uptown as funds become available. In order for Cincinnati to reverse it's decline it absolutely must have a strong urban core, that's why I am in favor of it.

I truely want the current streetcar to be built so when all of the final costs come in we will hear no more of the uptown connection. It is not an effective transporation system and will benefit only a select few. But please build it so everyone can be the result. What is holding it up? Are the council members getting cold feet?

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by progmac

Here is my analogy for mainstream development in the US (projects like Austin Road Interchange):
Imagine if, in your 20 year old house, your roof started leaking, a couple of windows broke out, birds were getting in the attic, and the paint was flaking off. Rather than fixing everything, you build an addition to the house and move into the addition. Everything is great in the new addition, no leaks, nothing. Then, 20 years later, the same things happen to the new addition. It would be too expensive to fix all the problems of both this and the addition, so you do the only logical thing -- you build yet another addition.

In the streetcar debate, those advocating for the streetcar see this investment as a way to fix the original house. Some opponents say, stop that, we need to save that money to build another addition!

Hi progmac--

Here's my analogy for the Cincinnati streetcar:

Imagine if, in your 20 year old house, your roof started leaking, a couple of windows broke out, birds were getting in the attic, and the paint was flaking off.

Rather than fixing everything as best as you can afford, you take out a second mortgage on the property, sell off both your cars, sign away an annuity, and sell the family dog in order to buy that extra-special double-glazed window... between the kitchen and the living room. Nevermind that it was the outside windows that needed replacement, the paint was peeling, and the roof was leaking.

That's the streetcar - the window between the kitchen and the living room. Cincinnati would be far better served if it actually spent the money all around the city - in the neighborhoods which have been neglected by this City Council so it could favor development in OTR.

But I suppose there's a nice new window between two interior rooms.

[TheMahValley]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

I truely want the current streetcar to be built so when all of the final costs come in we will hear no more of the uptown connection. It is not an effective transporation system and will benefit only a select few. But please build it so everyone can be the result. What is holding it up? Are the council members getting cold feet?

And how do you know how public transit works? Get out and see the world, KJ. I have even seen you say over on UO that the idiots (my wording of course) like smitherman and COAST, as well as Duke have put so many holds on getting the streetcar underway which causes costs to go up; it's really not rocket science. I feel so bad for Cincinnati being surrounded by such conservative know-it-alls.

Funny, most of the people against the streetcar don't even live in the city. Refresh my memory, wasn't it CINCINNATI RESIDENTS that voted a couple times in favor of it? That's what I thought. Yet let's spend millions on interchanges that are seeing lower traffic counts because of slow population growth. Keep calling the streetcar a "boondoggle", but I can mention several other "boondoggles" out there that involve the asphalt and concrete business.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

Cincinnati would be far better served if it actually spent the money all around the city - in the neighborhoods which have been neglected by this City Council so it could favor development in OTR.

But that's where your lack of knowledge shines brightest - OTR! ORR's redevelopments has no been primarily paid for by the city but from corporate investment via 3CDC. And you damn good and well that you can't take funds allocated for a specific project and spread them around the city. Are you sure you study law?

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

I truely want the current streetcar to be built so when all of the final costs come in we will hear no more of the uptown connection. It is not an effective transporation system and will benefit only a select few. But please build it so everyone can be the result. What is holding it up? Are the council members getting cold feet?

Brill, you are just as "anti" as the rest of the "antis" on this forum. You would love nothing more to see it fail so you can say "I told you so."

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by TheMahValley

And how do you know how public transit works? Get out and see the world, KJ. I have even seen you say over on UO that the idiots (my wording of course) like smitherman and COAST, as well as Duke have put so many holds on getting the streetcar underway which causes costs to go up; it's really not rocket science. I feel so bad for Cincinnati being surrounded by such conservative know-it-alls.

Funny, most of the people against the streetcar don't even live in the city. Refresh my memory, wasn't it CINCINNATI RESIDENTS that voted a couple times in favor of it? That's what I thought. Yet let's spend millions on interchanges that are seeing lower traffic counts because of slow population growth. Keep calling the streetcar a "boondoggle", but I can mention several other "boondoggles" out there that involve the asphalt and concrete business.

So if it is such a great public investment, why is the Cincinnati council dragging their heels for months relative to saying let's go full steam ahead. Very simple, like any public official they are look at their next reelection date, and they are getting cold feet. I am not against the streetcar per se, and since I do not live in Cincinnati it is really none of my business. I just find it extremely interesting that Cincinnati can hem-haw around for how many years now to get the streetcar built. Obviously some people don't think it is worth the money. Since it is not my money, I just wish they would stop procrastinating and do something, build it, kill it, just get off you asses and make a decision.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

So if it is such a great public investment, why is the Cincinnati council dragging their heels for months relative to saying let's go full steam ahead. Very simple, like any public official they are look at their next reelection date, and they are getting cold feet. I am not against the streetcar per se, and since I do not live in Cincinnati it is really none of my business. I just find it extremely interesting that Cincinnati can hem-haw around for how many years now to get the streetcar built. Obviously some people don't think it is worth the money. Since it is not my money, I just wish they would stop procrastinating and do something, build it, kill it, just get off you asses and make a decision.

I love how you ignore the obvious and blame Cincinnati for the resistance that has stalled progress until now.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

I love how you ignore the obvious and blame Cincinnati for the resistance that has stalled progress until now.

So where is the blame? Are you saying Non-Cincinnatians have been able to stall the progress? Amazing that people who do not even live in Cincinnati and have NO vote on anything which is connected to the streetcar in Cincinnati can have any influence on anything which is purely a Cincinnati question. Just how exactly do you explain that?

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

So where is the blame? Are you saying Non-Cincinnatians have been able to stall the progress? Amazing that people who do not even live in Cincinnati and have NO vote on anything which is connected to the streetcar in Cincinnati can have any influence on anything which is purely a Cincinnati question. Just how exactly do you explain that?

COAST. Quit feigning ignorance, this topic has been discussed ad naseum.