Dohoney: Streetcar Has $17.4 Million Shortfall, "Needs More Funding"" (Cincinnati: mover, legal)

[natininja]

Findlay Market is near the streetcar line, just like the Horseshoe. And unlike the Horseshoe, which is a private venture, it's publicly owned. And it is by all accounts successful. I guess that means the streetcar will be a resounding success!

See how stupid this game is? Talk about la-la land.

[streetcreed]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

^ Many people will swear it is cheaper to live in a township since they cannot collect income taxes. But my experience is many people who live in townships work in cities were income taxes are collected so they pay anyhow. Also since it is their only source of revenue I believe property taxes are actually higher in townships since they do not have income taxes to cover certain infrastructure, improvement or operating costs.

As I look around where I live, when it comes to suburban sprawl the townships are the worst. Seems like they will OK about anything to be built with little regard for future infrastructure maintainability. That is why you end up with things like the I-71/Fields Ertel interchange monstrosity, the Deerfield Towne Center just to the north and the ever expanding mess around I-75/Tylersville Rd, all in townships. Retail establishments love townships because they do not have to deduct city income tax from the low level wages of their workers. They also have fewer restrictions such as architectural uniformity, sign control, and greenspace separation to contend with. As I stated townships are so hungry for any property tax revenue they will agree to about anything being built.

This is one reason annexation is a good thing. In Cincinnati some townships were incorporated into suburbs. Though many "dog" columbus, the city annexed all townships. It did not annex already incorporated cities/suburbs. By annexing the townships the city sealed it's future as a large city. Because the city was able to control all of the development on this township/farm/woodsland. If the city hadn't annexed the townships everything between the 1950s boundary and the suburbs would be low rise homes and not nearly the amount of jobs. Essentially the Easton, Polaris, Tuttle business districts wouldn't exist.

[flashes1]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

Im aware of that. That's a much larger metro.



To all the naysayers. Do you all think Cincinnati is winning or losing competing against the Las Vegas, San Antonio or Charlotte's of the country?

They are investing in their cities. The streetcar is an investment.

I suspect cities like Las Vegas, San Antonio, and Charlotte don't have the huge underfunded pensions. Cinti needs to fund the pension or tell the pensioners to go pound sand before they think about a street car.

[unusualfire]

Originally Posted by flashes1

I suspect cities like Las Vegas, San Antonio, and Charlotte don't have the huge underfunded pensions. Cinti needs to fund the pension or tell the pensioners to go pound sand before they think about a street car.

Nope everyone of those cities are underfunded as well. I don't see why it matter though since everyone don't get a lump payment and will die before they collect everything.

A Widening Gap in Cities - The Pew Charitable Trusts

[flashes1]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

Nope everyone of those cities are underfunded as well. I don't see why it matter though since everyone don't get a lump payment and will die before they collect everything.

A Widening Gap in Cities - The Pew Charitable Trusts

But Charlotte's and San Antonio's are funded at very high percentages, and Las Vegas has the casinos to rely on. While Cincinnati has the fourth most underfunded pension with money running out in less than 8 years. This is what Mallory should be working on; not the street car. He has to crush the public union pensions or make significant contributions to their pensions to bring them up to acceptable funding percentages.

EconomicPolicyJournal.com: The First 10 Major Cities That Will Run Out Of Pension Fund Money

[unusualfire]

All I know is the pension is not in the same budget as the streetcar. They mayor can only do so much. He didn't cause it to be so high. If you think the streetcar is all he's worked on. That's on you. I know otherwise.

[natininja]

Originally Posted by flashes1

But Charlotte's and San Antonio's are funded at very high percentages, and Las Vegas has the casinos to rely on. While Cincinnati has the fourth most underfunded pension with money running out in less than 8 years. This is what Mallory should be working on; not the street car. He has to crush the public union pensions or make significant contributions to their pensions to bring them up to acceptable funding percentages.

EconomicPolicyJournal.com: The First 10 Major Cities That Will Run Out Of Pension Fund Money

The pension is in the operating budget, which SHARES NO MONEY with the capital budget, where money for the streetcar comes from. Your argument is old, tired, erroneous, and debunked!

On the contrary, the streetcar will raise tax revenue for the operating budget, via increased property values, increased demand for property with those increased values, commercial and residential developments. Investments such as the streetcar are exactly what the city needs for the pension fund to remain solvent.

[jmecklenborg]

>Cinti needs to fund the pension or tell the pensioners to go pound sand before they think about a street car.

FEDERAL URBAN CIRCULATOR GRANTS CANNOT BE USED TO FUND EMPLOYEE PENSIONS. THE SALE OF CAPITAL BONDS CANNOT BE USED TO FUND EMPLOYEE PENSIONS. CAPITAL FUND REVENUE (.1% EARNINGS TAX, 6 MILL PROPERTY TAX, SOUTHERN RAILROAD LEASE, ETC.) CANNOT BE USED TO FUND EMPLOYEE PENSIONS.

What can? $50 MILLION THAT WAS STOLEN FROM THE PENSION FUND BY JOHN CRANLEY IN 2001. YEAH THE SAME JOHN CRANLEY WHO IS CAMPAIGNING ABOUT HOW THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION CAUSED THE PENSION SHORTFALL IS ACTUALLY THE ONE WHO CAUSED IT. AND HE CAUSED IT ON PURPOSE BECAUSE HE KNEW PEOPLE COULDN'T FIGURE IT OUT.

[Chemistry_Guy]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

What can? $50 MILLION THAT WAS STOLEN FROM THE PENSION FUND BY JOHN CRANLEY IN 2001. YEAH THE SAME JOHN CRANLEY WHO IS CAMPAIGNING ABOUT HOW THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION CAUSED THE PENSION SHORTFALL IS ACTUALLY THE ONE WHO CAUSED IT. AND HE CAUSED IT ON PURPOSE BECAUSE HE KNEW PEOPLE COULDN'T FIGURE IT OUT.

John Cranley is a slimeball and an abrasive jerk as well. I have met him on several occasions, and every time my opinion was the same.

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy

John Cranley is a slimeball and an abrasive jerk as well. I have met him on several occasions, and every time my opinion was the same.

I agree with this. I met John Cranley multiple times when he was on Council, back when he was an advocate FOR the streetcar. And I still thought he was as shady as it gets, not to mention he doesn't have any clue how to govern. The thought of him running for Congress several years ago was laughable. The thought of him as mayor is just scary.