Dohoney: Streetcar Has $17.4 Million Shortfall, "Needs More Funding"" (Cincinnati: living, versus)

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by motorman

Quite honestly, I'm not sure which was which, but I do know that Kasich withholding that $52-million funding sent the city back to the drawing-board--and what emerged was a terribly reduced streetcar plan that sent city-council into the disastrous tail-spin from which they've never fully recovered (nor have we).

But the withdrawn money held back for the uptown extension is one thing. That is something which may or may not happen. But the commitment of the City council to the original downtown section - where is that? Did they not envision the original segment may come in over budget? Are these City planners and council people or not? If as Jake has said if the original idea was something which Cincinnati could do without outside monies and influence, then simply do it! They seem to incapable of getting off their butts and making a commitment.

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

But the withdrawn money held back for the uptown extension is one thing. That is something which may or may not happen. But the commitment of the City council to the original downtown section - where is that? Did they not envision the original segment may come in over budget? Are these City planners and council people or not? If as Jake has said if the original idea was something which Cincinnati could do without outside monies and influence, then simply do it! They seem to incapable of getting off their butts and making a commitment.

Hi kjbrill--

Don't quote me on it but I'm pretty sure City Council committed to the idea without having the money on hand, somehow hoping and praying that the money would appear out of nowhere. Of course, since the state pulled its funding (in 2011?), funding the streetcar properly has become just a little more fanciful than before, if that's even possible.

[Dayton Sux]

Is this going to be the "new subway"?

...it seems the opposition to this is not going away, just reading this thread. All it would take is the opponents to take political control at the mayorial/council level and the plug gets pulled? Correct?

[bertwrench]

Originally Posted by natininja

Are you thinking of the 3C rail line? That's totally different from the streetcar.

There’s a New Sheriff at Ohio DOT, and He Likes Asphalt | Streetsblog.net

No, this article you linked to (thank you) mentions what I was thinking of. Here is what is says in one part:

"What Townley and her colleagues failed to mention was that the TRAC funding in question is federal money being reallocated through state governments. Pulling the money for the streetcar does not help to solve the budget crisis Governor Kasich is facing, it simply moves it around to much less worthy projects. The other members of the TRAC noticed this right away and voiced their concern."

While I'm all for fiscal responsibility, Kasich isn't going to make many friends in the Cincy area after that. This gives him a black eye in my book as well. I wonder if there is some way to place political pressure back on him come election time to see if we can get some of the money back. I'm new to Ohio, so I'm wondering if he can win again without much support from Cincinnati.

[natininja]

It might have been federal money originally, but he did not give it back to the feds in the way he did the 3C money. It was just reallocated elsewhere in the state.

His Cincinnati base is in the suburbs, where pulling money from the city (and the streetcar in particular) likely plays well. Even if it means the money no longer benefits the region and it is not returned to the feds.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by natininja

It might have been federal money originally, but he did not give it back to the feds in the way he did the 3C money. It was just reallocated elsewhere in the state.

His Cincinnati base is in the suburbs, where pulling money from the city (and the streetcar in particular) likely plays well. Even if it means the money no longer benefits the region and it is not returned to the feds.

I wonder why any state politician would solicit the suburbs? Do you think it may be due to the fact he realizes that is where the financial clout is?

Where did John Boehner hold his political rallies this past election? - Westchester. Sure he is from the area, but I will guarantee most of the GOP contributions were also from the area.

I am not a GOP contributor. In fact I am no longer a contributor to anything as I consider them all to be out of whack with the opinions of the majority of Americans. So I exercxise my most basic right - don't give them a dime, including No on my income tax return for political contributions. Please ALCU get that deleted from the income tax returns.

[natininja]

Don't forget, it is the densest population of Republicans in the state. And as you love to point out the suburban residents outnumber the urban residents by a longshot.

TBH, I don't think the wealthier suburbanites care that much about the streetcar. It's more of a populist crusade.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by natininja

Don't forget, it is the densest population of Republicans in the state. And as you love to point out the suburban residents outnumber the urban residents by a longshot.

TBH, I don't think the wealthier suburbanites care that much about the streetcar. It's more of a populist crusade.

Good or bad, I can guarantee you my acquiantances could care less about the streetcar. They consider it a Cincinnati situation pure and simple. Cincinnati decided to go ahread. That is just fine, but what is Cincinnati now expecting to boiil them out of their delemma? You make a deicision then you see it through to the end. This seems to be what Cincinnati is incapable of doing.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by natininja

And as you love to point out the suburban residents outnumber the urban residents by a longshot.

Brill's definition of "suburban residents" is extremely subjective, and slippery at best. The way the census views things is by urbanized area, which in Cincinnati's case is around 1.5 million. Not to mention suburbs such as Mason are eclipsed by Cincinnati and always will be. The highest concentration of jobs and corporate clout in the region remains firmly planted in the downtown/uptown districts in Cincinnati.

[rrtechno]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

Brill's definition of "suburban residents" is extremely subjective, and slippery at best. The way the census views things is by urbanized area, which in Cincinnati's case is around 1.5 million. Not to mention suburbs such as Mason are eclipsed by Cincinnati and always will be. The highest concentration of jobs and corporate clout in the region remains firmly planted in the downtown/uptown districts in Cincinnati.

I'm sure things have changed somewhat in the last 5 years, but how much?

Here is a report from 2008. Especially interesting is the chart on the second page.

http://greaterohio.org/files/policy-...population.pdf