Cincinnati-Indianapolis-Chicago high speed rail (Hartford, Wilson: rooftop, living, dangerous)

[Wilson513]

Admittedly, Chicago has a little younger population than the surrounding suburbs. But, then, it also has an enormous college student population. So, it is hard to tell if this means anything. College kids are always crowing about how important the subway or train is until they get a job and then go right out to buy a car.

In the city of Chicago over half the people drive a car to work, another 10% carpool, another 12% take the bus. Having been on the L I can agree that it has its adherents. But, I would not agree that corporate jobs are increasing within the City when compared to the burgeoning suburbs. Schaumburg, Palatine, Arlington Heights come to mind. Without any stats at my fingertips, I would bet private sector job growth in the City of Chicago is one tenth of that in the best of these suburbs.

I think Chicago still has double digit unemployment.

[neilworms2]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

Admittedly, Chicago has a little younger population than the surrounding suburbs. But, then, it also has an enormous college student population. So, it is hard to tell if this means anything. College kids are always crowing about how important the subway or train is until they get a job and then go right out to buy a car.

In the city of Chicago over half the people drive a car to work, another 10% carpool, another 12% take the bus. Having been on the L I can agree that it has its adherents. But, I would not agree that corporate jobs are increasing within the City when compared to the burgeoning suburbs. Schaumburg, Palatine, Arlington Heights come to mind. Without any stats at my fingertips, I would bet private sector job growth in the City of Chicago is one tenth of that in the best of these suburbs.

I think Chicago still has double digit unemployment.

Articles talking about the current situation from Chicago Newspapers:

In search for talent, companies migrate to downtown Chicago - Chicago Tribune

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/reale...e-gets-tougher

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...ry.html#page=1



Study from a local real estate consulting firm:

http://www.bradfordallen.com/chicago...t-report-1q14/

Deeper insight into what's going on in Illinois economy:

http://www.urbanophile.com/2014/05/2...by-bill-testa/

(Downstate is screwed, professional jobs in the loop are doing well).

Chicago still has employment problems yes (barely below double digits yes), largely due to deindustralization of an industrial town, but in terms of professional job growth there is a different story largely due to the sheer number of post-college midwestreners who are attracted to urban life here. Chicago quite literally is a tale of two cities, one a global powerhouse almost a mini New York the other a rust belt great lakes industrial city similar to Detroit.

More than College kids make up the young population here, and that's attracting corporate offices.

[Wilson513]

I really don't see what the articles you linked have to do with this issue.

My original premise was as follows:

Originally Posted by Wilson513

You have hit the nail on head. When the destination is a place one cannot drive or park, like NYC, etc. a train may make some sense. Although, rail technology is technology of the past. An 800,000 pound fossil fuel (diesel electric or dedicated electric) vehicle running back and forth on a schedule, sometimes empty, sometimes full, with a professional crew, makes no sense in an environment of 50mpg hybrid vehicles.

And, I noted:

Originally Posted by Wilson513

I don't think one needs to achieve 30 mpg much less 50 mpg to make it more economical than the 800,000 pound behemoth running down the rails with a crew of professional retainers, bringing folks to a bus stop or car park. My family used to live along the L in Chicago. Today, not 1% of Chicago's population could end a trip to there by getting off a train and walking to their final destination. Every trip into the city requires a bus trip, mostly two, or a taxi or a car in addition to the train. Cincinnati would be less than 1%. Meanwhile the friendly Honda is happily sitting in the driveway using no gas or electricity waiting to carry its proud owner to the restaurant, day care, work or play he desires without a crew of union train workers or a stranger drooling on his shoulder.

I think this statement is correct. Since only 5% of the Chicago commuters use the L or a subway to get to work from anywhere, and Chicago makes up only 25% of the residents of the area which would supply the workers. I think 1% is about right.

Think of the train as the ride for the elite. That cool 1% with no kids, no car, no serious responsibilities outside of work or school and apartment. The folks one sees on "Friends" or "Seinfeld."

Tell a Chicago working mom from Barrington with no stay at home husband that she should drive to the car park, take a bus to the CTA line at O'Hare, take the train to the Loop then take another bus or train to work.

[neilworms2]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

I really don't see what the articles you linked have to do with this issue.

My original premise was as follows:



And, I noted:



I think this statement is correct. Since only 5% of the Chicago commuters use the L or a subway to get to work from anywhere, and Chicago makes up only 25% of the residents of the area which would supply the workers. I think 1% is about right.

Your changing the topic, you mentioned that jobs are more vibrant in the suburbs and I gave you a mountain of evidence that proves you otherwise. More people commute by transit to the city, which includes Metra not just the el.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by neilworms2

Your changing the topic, you mentioned that jobs are more vibrant in the suburbs and I gave you a mountain of evidence that proves you otherwise. More people commute by transit to the city, which includes Metra not just the el.

I think you said something about jobs. Perhaps other may have. And, I think you changed the subject. In response I said that probably the city had one-tenth the new employment compared to the suburbs. That may have been a little strong, but there in no question that the suburbs are growing. Maybe not as fast as 1960, but Chicago was once a city where most of the folks who worked in the city lived in the city (if you include the near-in suburbs along the L like Berwyn and Cicero and Riverside (where my family lived) and others.

[unusualfire]

I think you are forgetting the fact that the People from Chicago would come here too. It's not all about Cincinnati's numbers.

[Yac]

And remember to remain calm and respectful as you disagree
Yac.

[progmac]

Self-driving cars will make railways obsolete - Nerdoholic

[RustBeltOptimist]

Originally Posted by progmac

Self-driving cars will make railways obsolete - Nerdoholic

Notice that it's always the same one guy (the same crazy old coot who predicted that Portland would fail to attract businesses seven years ago because its planning was too restrictive to individual homeowners, the same one who implied several cities' rail networks would fail by this point six years ago) who's now saying that autonomous cars will rescue the auto industry and kill passenger rail in 15 years. What's clear is that Randal O'Toole doesn't care at all for rail, and is willing to go far out of his way to proclaim it from the rooftops, but what isn't clear is what besides demagoguery he's proven himself an expert in.

Again, the major flaw in the argument is that the allure of autonomous cars is not going to be so great to overcome the concerns that the millennial generation seems to have with cars in general: namely they are too costly to buy and maintain, they are too inconvenient to park in attractive urban areas where a lot of the 20-30 somethings want to live, and they aren't going to be attractive to suburban drivers who will want to keep the control of their own vehicles. As I've also mentioned, there are insurance and liability issues that the status quo in industry won't let go without a fight, which is likely going to drive the cost of these cars higher (see the price of electric vehicles as an example of this effect.)

At any rate, I think O'Toole is of a generation where the car was a more revered part of the American Dream, and that's just no longer the case. I think there's a disconnect between this generation and younger people who can easily go carless and not feel like they've lost some status.

[WILWRadio]

Some of the pitfalls of maintaining the rails on any line should be noted. The following article illustrates this perfectly.

Report: Metro-North, FRA Share Much Blame For Crashes - Hartford Courant