Cincinnati-Indianapolis-Chicago high speed rail

[2nd trick op]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

DERAILED: California’s high-speed train project going nowhere fast

The only thing speedy about California’s vaunted plan for a high-speed rail system connecting Los Angeles and San Francisco is the name.[LEFT]
Read more: DERAILED: California's high-speed train project going nowhere fast - Washington Times

[/LEFT]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

Work has begun on the HSR line between SF and LA. May work there but it will likely be a huge drain on the wallets of the taxpayers.

Opinion: California bullet train: High cost, tiny impact | The Sacramento Bee The Sacramento Bee

Unspectacular work marks first high-speed rail construction | High-Speed Rail | FresnoBee.com

At this point, the strategy among the HSR advocacy is to concentrate on those sections where the greatest improvements in speed can be attained at the lowest construction cost; namely; the "flat and straight" Central Valley between Merced and Stockton, with Bakersfield-Merced (existing Amtrak already under signaling upgrade to a potential 110 MPH) to be added next. The more difficult segments -- the approaches to san Francisco or Oakland and the bottleneck at Tehachapi between Bakersfield and either Mojave or Lancaster -- are to be addressed later, and there's a pretty good chance that Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway (which owns Burlington Northern Santa Fe which, in turn, wants its own route around the "Tehachapi Loop") can be coaxed into a joint public/private partnership, hopefully reducing the capital costs by building two parallel lines -- one for HSR and one for freight.

This constant horse-trading is characteristic of all HSR and similar infrastructural projects due to the fickle mature of both the politicians and the public they claim to serve. One part which is getting attention quickly is the station / transfer hub at Fresno, for political and public relations considerations which should be obvious.

And it needs to be emphasized: this is California, which has enough population and congestion that a fully-operational and complete HSR network has a large potential -- but it will take many years to complete; there are also a large number of good-sized communities between the projected end-points which would derive a more immediate benefit.

The case for HSR in a Chicago-Indianapolis-Cincinnati market is not so obvious, though it might make sense as one part of a hub-and-spoke pattern around Chicago someday. But that won't be for quite a while as yet. And only if the end of the Age of Petroleum puts a damper on all use of private autos -- not likely.

[ProkNo5]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

At least you are qualified to give an honest assessment of potential for rail to succeed or fail in many areas of the country. Agree with much of what you said though I still doubt HSR will ever be able to come close to standing on its own two feet in any areas other than the Northeast and possibly California until great population shifts take place and densities increase in the areas where it is being proposed. Only Chicago really has the population to support it and perhaps Detroit and Cleveland. The rest of the Midwest does not at this time.

Ohio has a population density greater than France. We can absolutely support HSR. It's purely a problem of political will.

[2nd trick op]

Originally Posted by ProkNo5

Ohio has a population density greater than France. We can absolutely support HSR. It's purely a problem of political will.

But France also has a punitive tax system designed to keep gasoline prices high and discourage private auto ownership and use.

And Paris, with a metro population between 8 and 12 million depending upon how it's measured, dominates the French economy in a way that Cleveland (or Columbus, or Cincinnati, or any one of several smaller cities) does not dominate Ohio.

[Wilson513]

France: Court of Auditors put breaks on TGV
Paris - To call it a ‘slating’ would be an understatement. France’s Court of Auditors presented an unexpectedly damning report on the nation’s high speed railway. The report gives the TGV failing marks on all points: earnings, environmental protection, network design, efficiency and convenience.

France: Court of Auditors put breaks on TGV - The Medi Telegraph

[SWOH]

Originally Posted by 2nd trick op

But France also has a punitive tax system designed to keep gasoline prices high and discourage private auto ownership and use.

And Paris, with a metro population between 8 and 12 million depending upon how it's measured, dominates the French economy in a way that Cleveland (or Columbus, or Cincinnati, or any one of several smaller cities) does not dominate Ohio.

Exactly. But Chicago does. This line would be more of feeding the notion of Chicago being our "Big City".

I think the best case example here is actually NW Indiana, an area that utilizes its light rail quite well. Many white, middle to upper class, affluent suburbanites, villagers, and landowners alike drive to station terminals in places like Schererville or Merrilville or Valpariaso or South Bend and board the trains to head into Chicago. They don't go by car normally.

So this connection would be less of "Does Cincy deserve rail" and more of "Does the traffic to Chicago from Cincinnati and Indianapolis justify having an efficient rail line directly into the city?"

And to that, I don't know. I can estimate about 15-20% of Miami U's student population of 16,000 is from Chicago, and of those about 80% would be likely to use this train. Honda workers in Greensburg would use the line to get back home to Indy. Indy businessmen would use the lines to get to Chicago. Purdue students would use the line to get home to NWI or Indianapolis or other points on the line. And Cincy workers may use the line to get to Indy or Chicago.

So there's a lot of potential. It's not a bad line, and overall not many stops would be needed because the population along most of the line is sparse.

[unusualfire]

I bet the same thing was said in discussions went interstate highways was introduced.

[neilworms2]

Wilson: have you actually ridden the TGV and compared to what we have?

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by neilworms2

Wilson: have you actually ridden the TGV and compared to what we have?

LOL...


But seriously, isn't it strange that every single issue is "damning" evidence about HSR or rail in general, but road infrastructure literally collapsing means everything's great... and we're not allowed to discuss any of the historical problems that came with building the road system in the first place.

It's different!! There are no comparisons!!!

Right.

[Wilson513]

THE CASE AGAINST HIGH-SPEED RAIL IN TEXAS


In 1991, the Texas High-Speed Rail Authority awarded a 50-year rail franchise to the Texas TGV Corporation, an international consortium, to build a high-speed rail network connecting the “Texas Triangle” — Dallas/Fort Worth, Austin/San Antonio and Houston.
But because of opposition from landowners, local communities and airlines — plus challenges raising private capital — the proposal went nowhere.
Once again, high-speed rail is being championed by a private, for-profit company. This time it’s Texas Central Railway, which wants to build a bullet train connecting Dallas and Houston in 90 minutes. But this proposal, too, will not come to pass because the economics simply don’t work.


Why I welcome the National Guard to my town

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

THE CASE AGAINST HIGH-SPEED RAIL IN TEXAS


In 1991, the Texas High-Speed Rail Authority awarded a 50-year rail franchise to the Texas TGV Corporation, an international consortium, to build a high-speed rail network connecting the “Texas Triangle” — Dallas/Fort Worth, Austin/San Antonio and Houston.
But because of opposition from landowners, local communities and airlines — plus challenges raising private capital — the proposal went nowhere.
Once again, high-speed rail is being championed by a private, for-profit company. This time it’s Texas Central Railway, which wants to build a bullet train connecting Dallas and Houston in 90 minutes. But this proposal, too, will not come to pass because the economics simply don’t work.


Why I welcome the National Guard to my town

Why do you promote opinion pieces as legitimate sources of information? He cites no studies, no research. He throws out a few numbers and claims it won't work.

Guy does sound pretty much like you, so I can see why he appeals to you.