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And there are absolutely zero people in the top income brackets who like the convenience of riding trains, right? That the elites like to be chauffeured about on the tax subsidized highways the rest of us are forced to pay for? So this is about keeping the wealthy that can afford the luxury in control of their destinies, but taking away that freedom from the common folk, because what blue blooded American would get caught in the same train as the riff-raff. I get it, you want to force your elitism on the rest of us, mold us to fit Wilson's subsidized highway lifestyle because that's the right way, the only way to be happy.
Actually if anyone read a couple of my earlier posts I indicated that my friend's father and also the husband of my mother's friend used to take the train to work in Manhattan from Connecticut. And these were executives, not working class people.
I think you are putting words into Wilson's keyboard. I don't see anything suggesting class warfare here but you seem to be bringing that up.
Busses are more practical in the long run than new rail. If they can find a way to use existing rail lines then I might be in favor of a HSR line from Chicago to Cincy. At least try it under those conditions and if it can't break even or come close to it, close it. I just don't want to see the taxpayers get hosed again for billions and billions of dollars given the amount of debt this nation has. We are rapidly becoming insolvent due to reckless spending in personal lives and the government.
You call out other people for denigrating posters without knowing them yet you seem to have me pegged as an unemployed adult child? Sorry, you're not quite close. Note that it was also you who denigrate and stereotype and make dubious claims about all rail riders and put them in a sub-class simply because they have a different preference for getting around. If I said I thought all car drivers were careless and drunk speed demons who were willing to put the lives of others at risk for their own sadistic satisfaction, you would rightly call me out. Yet you're able to make broad blanket claims about rail riders? That's hypocrisy. Not all car drivers are maniacs, not all of them are as elitist as you, many are actually the common folk you mention. Likewise, many of us who prefer to go carless are also common, willing to walk or ride a bike or bus to get our bag of fast food and drop off our gas payment, even pick up the kids from day care. Most probably can't afford the dry cleaning part, btw, you probably ought to skip that one next time you claim to be one of them.
So yes, good for them, let's stop subsidizing one form of transit over another with our tax dollars, of which in my unemployed adult child state, I seem to pay a lot of.
I am saddened by your lack of knowledge about life and the common folks.
Dry cleaners are a service for working folks. No, you won't find people from under the bridge stopping by, and not people who ride in the back of a Lincoln Signature Edition, but people who have to dress up and show up every day and neither have a laundress, wear levis to work nor have the time to iron shirts. I guess you wouldn't know that. I will try to remember to ask my friend who is a day care worker if she has anyone pick up kids who does not have a car. Its possible, I suppose, but unlikely.
Actually if anyone read a couple of my earlier posts I indicated that my friend's father and also the husband of my mother's friend used to take the train to work in Manhattan from Connecticut. And these were executives, not working class people.
I think you are putting words into Wilson's keyboard. I don't see anything suggesting class warfare here but you seem to be bringing that up.
Busses are more practical in the long run than new rail. If they can find a way to use existing rail lines then I might be in favor of a HSR line from Chicago to Cincy. At least try it under those conditions and if it can't break even or come close to it, close it. I just don't want to see the taxpayers get hosed again for billions and billions of dollars given the amount of debt this nation has. We are rapidly becoming insolvent due to reckless spending in personal lives and the government.
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train riders mostly hate the train. They post endless disgusting videos of violence and offense on trains, filth and graffiti, bums and panhandlers.
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People want privacy, convenience, their personal freedoms. More now that when our parents were in charge. People who can afford these things should have them. People who cannot, need to get better education, salable skills and better jobs.
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Think of the train as the ride for the elite. That cool 1% with no kids, no car, no serious responsibilities outside of work or school and apartment. The folks one sees on "Friends" or "Seinfeld."
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I am sure that there are some hipsters in Portlandia who love their subsidized rail rides to school or down to the aquarium to smoke pot and watch the fish.
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What "common folk" want is a personal car. After work, us "common folk" need to pick up the dry cleaning, get the kids from day care, drop off a late payment to the gas company, and get a bag of fast food for dinner. Try that without a car.
On the other hand, our unemployed adult children (see above) who want to go to a concert in town, get buzzed, and don't have a car anywaay, are up for a train ride. Good for them.
In post after post Wilson makes broad claims about the character of train riders and never once acknowledges that any of them might be regular citizens just making a choice to get around. You were rightfully upset earlier when you felt that your preferred lifestyle of driving was being attacked, and yet you back him up in this and claim he's a-okay in making these broad assertions. Why is that? It's a dishonest stance, and not at all conducive to a civil conversation. I'm just trying to get him off of the character attacks of rail riders, but I'm probably doing it the wrong way. Please do not encourage him to make more.
In the long run, rail will be more practical than busses in most cases, as there's typically no added development (and accompanying revenue) along bus lines, and even when there is, such as along the BRT line in Cleveland, it pales in comparison to the development along a comparable rail corridor. The return in receipts is much smaller, which makes the smaller costs involved nevertheless more likely to have to receive additional subsidies through either increased taxes or fares. With rail you are more likely to be able to maintain taxes after they get built. The two exceptions in the country that I've found to this rule in the last 30 years (Albuquerque to Santa Fe and Burlington, VT to Charlotte, VT) are much smaller than Cincinnati, Indy, or obviously Chicago. So you add BRT's to a city that you expect or want small and limited economic growth, you add rail if you want rapid and substantial growth.
I am saddened by your lack of knowledge about life and the common folks.
Dry cleaners are a service for working folks. No, you won't find people from under the bridge stopping by, and not people who ride in the back of a Lincoln Signature Edition, but people who have to dress up and show up every day and neither have a laundress, wear levis to work nor have the time to iron shirts. I guess you wouldn't know that. I will try to remember to ask my friend who is a day care worker if she has anyone pick up kids who does not have a car. Its possible, I suppose, but unlikely.
Where is her day care? If it's in the suburbs, I'm guessing you'll be right. In the city, I know several parents who pick up their kids and take the bus with them back home. I deal with people who work on factory floors, who clean the offices the dry cleaning crowd use at night when they don't have to be seen, with school teachers and bartenders, waitresses, construction crews and retail sales people. None of whom regularly use the dry cleaner, and yet who would make up the bulk of the employed people in this city.
In post after post Wilson makes broad claims about the character of train riders and never once acknowledges that any of them might be regular citizens just making a choice to get around. You were rightfully upset earlier when you felt that your preferred lifestyle of driving was being attacked, and yet you back him up in this and claim he's a-okay in making these broad assertions. Why is that? It's a dishonest stance, and not at all conducive to a civil conversation. I'm just trying to get him off of the character attacks of rail riders, but I'm probably doing it the wrong way. Please do not encourage him to make more.
In the long run, rail will be more practical than busses in most cases, as there's typically no added development (and accompanying revenue) along bus lines, and even when there is, such as along the BRT line in Cleveland, it pales in comparison to the development along a comparable rail corridor. The return in receipts is much smaller, which makes the smaller costs involved nevertheless more likely to have to receive additional subsidies through either increased taxes or fares. With rail you are more likely to be able to maintain taxes after they get built. The two exceptions in the country that I've found to this rule in the last 30 years (Albuquerque to Santa Fe and Burlington, VT to Charlotte, VT) are much smaller than Cincinnati, Indy, or obviously Chicago. So you add BRT's to a city that you expect or want small and limited economic growth, you add rail if you want rapid and substantial growth.
I'm not a fascist and not interested in controlling the views of others that may disagree. Wilson is entitled to his opinion and perhaps those are experiences he has seen first hand or perhaps people he knows. I've ridden the subway's in NYC (though decades ago) and I do recall seeing some rather unseemly behavior going on.
Simply put, I have had a lot of bad experiences with a lot of people while living in the lower Midwest region over the years and when I speak up about it I get attacked and accused of being the problem. I see the same thing here with Wilson. People don't agree with his stance and they level personal attacks at his character and judgment.
I'm not a fascist and not interested in controlling the views of others that may disagree. Wilson is entitled to his opinion and perhaps those are experiences he has seen first hand or perhaps people he knows. I've ridden the subway's in NYC (though decades ago) and I do recall seeing some rather unseemly behavior going on.
Simply put, I have had a lot of bad experiences with a lot of people while living in the lower Midwest region over the years and when I speak up about it I get attacked and accused of being the problem. I see the same thing here with Wilson. People don't agree with his stance and they level personal attacks at his character and judgment.
So you feel it's alright if car drivers make broad claims against rail riders, but not the other way around. Good to know. I'm the one Wilson at various points has called an unemployed adult child, he's called a luddite hipster and several other things well before I called him out on elitism and you said nothing. I see.
Yes, we disagree, and I actually respect his intellect even though I think some of his arguments don't utilize it fully, I just wish his arguments involved fewer personal attacks and broad stereotypes against people he has little knowledge of.
So you feel it's alright if car drivers make broad claims against rail riders, but not the other way around. Good to know. I'm the one Wilson at various points has called an unemployed adult child, he's called a luddite hipster and several other things well before I called him out on elitism and you said nothing. I see.
Yes, we disagree, and I actually respect his intellect even though I think some of his arguments don't utilize it fully, I just wish his arguments involved fewer personal attacks and broad stereotypes against people he has little knowledge of.
Please don't try to manipulate me into taking either side. Frankly I am not taking anyone's side on this. Not my battle. I can certainly see where rail is an asset just as long as it is cost effective to build and operate and ultimately maintain the infrastructure.
Actually, I am certain to have ridden a lot more trains than either of trains' two advocates here. I have been on the L in Chicago hundreds of times, NYC trains, including the LIRR, several train systems in Europe. So, I take no offense from the uninformed. I am beginning to suspect, however, that what we have with the only two train advocates I can see is the possibility that they are paid forum posters or have some other vested interest in the advocacy of trains. Why else would they care to be so combative?
Actually, I am certain to have ridden a lot more trains than either of trains' two advocates here. I have been on the L in Chicago hundreds of times, NYC trains, including the LIRR, several train systems in Europe. So, I take no offense from the uninformed. I am beginning to suspect, however, that what we have with the only two train advocates I can see is the possibility that they are paid forum posters or have some other vested interest in the advocacy of trains. Why else would they care to be so combative?
Yes, there does appear to be some ulterior motive based upon what I am reading. I can tell that you are speaking from experience and that of others that you know. I do as well.
Actually, I am certain to have ridden a lot more trains than either of trains' two advocates here. I have been on the L in Chicago hundreds of times, NYC trains, including the LIRR, several train systems in Europe. So, I take no offense from the uninformed. I am beginning to suspect, however, that what we have with the only two train advocates I can see is the possibility that they are paid forum posters or have some other vested interest in the advocacy of trains. Why else would they care to be so combative?
More character attacks, and this one's actually rising to the point of libel as it's easily disproven. Great, thanks. You are really swell. I haven't been around as much as you, probably on the L a couple dozen times less than you, and apparently I haven't been to Europe as much as other "common folk," either. I have taken trains in many other US cities like LA, SF, Philly, Denver, St. Louis, Portland, Las Vegas, Boston, NYC, etc.., and a few Canadian cities to boot. My long distance rail experience is limited to the NE corridor and a couple of trips on the California Zephyr when it's more convenient than flying. I am not a neophyte when it comes to riding on them. I have not once in my train travel been paid by anyone in the industry or received any favors from anybody for stating the simple economics I have found here.
Please, stop with the character assassination and broad attacks against train riders and simply back your arguments without them.
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