Cincinnati-Indianapolis-Chicago high speed rail (Hamilton, Baltimore: calculator, garages, stadium)

[Kevin1813]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

When people were constrained to do the same thing every day in the same way. We are free of that today and it is exemplified no where better than the use of the private automobile. Let's not turn back the clock unless we are going to live in a Tokyo type futuristic society of 20,000 people per square mile and working in plants with 10,000 employees in a single location.

I'm really not sure what you mean by that. I currently live in a city with great public transportation (not Tokyo or NYC either haha) and I can assure you I'm not constrained in the least. Depending on what the easiest way to get to a final destination is, I'll walk, drive, bike, or take transit. If anything, I'm not constrained by the approximately $10,000.00 yearly cost of owning a car. Sure transit tickets and car share cost money, but only a small fration as owning a car.

You don't have to live in some super megapolis to have various, successful transportation options.

[Wilson513]

Why is always a 26 year old single guy living in an apartment on the trolley line and working or going to school down the line, that thinks, in a self absorbed way, that folks in a midwestern city need light rail? To duplicate the legacy rail infrastruction of Philadelphia in Cincinnati such that even a small fraction of the residents here would have meaningful access would probably require the entire annual income of every resident for a decade. We just squandered 150 million dollars for a trolley which would take you from 50th to Clark Park. We only have to do that about 1,600 times to get to where you are with the legacy rails Philly has preserved.

Great City by the way, Philly. Far better than NYC or Tokyo.

[unusualfire]

Squandered? So me the study that shows that money went to waste? I have no idea what 50th and Clark Park is as well.

[WheresTheBeef]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

This high speed rail reminds me of some animated version of a future world. Like mot things today, no plan on how to finance and sustain it. Perhaps we should drop back to when this country became great and require businesses to finance their own, what a Novel Idea!

The big problem with "high speed rail" is that most of the proposals are not "high speed" at all. Like Strickland's 35 mph 3-C choo-choo with stops all over the place.

A true high speed train at 200 mph, however, would be very attractive for something like a Chicago trip (too long to drive regularly, but not so long that you can't) since you wouldn't have to deal with the hassle of going to the airport.

I had to pick up a car for someone in Iowa and got there for $50 on the MegaBus. Okay for a one-shot deal, but way too long to do on a regular basis.

I also am not someone who necessarily believes that something like a train needs to make a profit. It is a government service and I don't mind it showing losses provided they are reasonable and you actually benefit from some way (like speed).

By the same token, I'm not a big fan of being crammed into the same space with a lot of smelly, stinky, uncooth strangers, either. You "it takes a village" types forget that a train is going to have the same stinky, bedbug ridden people you have to ride with on a bus. Most people do not want to be exposed to this on a regular basis.

The car issue can be solved by integrating car rental with the train station like it is at airports.

[WheresTheBeef]

Originally Posted by Kevin1813

I too love Mega Bus, but if we're truely going for a "free market", we should toll all roads and highways and/or raise the gas tax to a level that can actually pay for the construction AND maintenance of our road system. Mega Bus works very well, but only due to Government subsidies for the road system.

MegaBus works well because you need a credit card and a computer to buy tickets. That's why they get a lot of college kids and average citizen types. If MegaBus were like Greyhound and took orders by phone or at a ticket counter, they would get Greyhound's gang bangers and the unwashed urban masses as well. Why do you think MegaBus doesn't use Greyhound's terminals and dumps you off on the street? This is by design.

[Kevin1813]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

Why is always a 26 year old single guy living in an apartment on the trolley line and working or going to school down the line, that thinks, in a self absorbed way, that folks in a midwestern city need light rail? To duplicate the legacy rail infrastruction of Philadelphia in Cincinnati such that even a small fraction of the residents here would have meaningful access would probably require the entire annual income of every resident for a decade. We just squandered 150 million dollars for a trolley which would take you from 50th to Clark Park. We only have to do that about 1,600 times to get to where you are with the legacy rails Philly has preserved.

Great City by the way, Philly. Far better than NYC or Tokyo.

Not single nor 26 and while I don't live in Cincinnati currently, I do love the city and wouldn't mind returning there one day. I'm not here to preach from on high.

I agree, to replicate the rail infrastructure of Philadelphia in Cincinnati would be insane, hence I did not suggest it. I merely stated that using good public transit does not necessarily mean that you are constrained.

Not sure about your math either. The Cincinnati streetcar 2.5x the length (1 way) as 50th and Baltimore to Clark Park (in Philly).

And the comment about taking every resident's annual income for a decade is a pretty wild exaggeration. If one were to take a mere 0.5% (the same rate as the stadium tax) of the yearly GDP of Cincinnati, it would result in approximately 5 streecar projects per year. For that you could connect Oakley, Hyde Park, and Xavier via the Wasson right a way to Clifton and the streetcar. The next year you could a similar route from downtown through Covington to the airport. The next year you'd have enough to connect the system to Blue Ash, the following year Sharonville. GDP isn't the best number to use but you get the idea.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Everyone seems to complain about the subsidies our transportation system receives. I don't complain much since I rarely travel out of the town I live in, and it has good roads. But quit complaining, the road system supports how many people with jobs, is open to the entire public, and a far more pleasant method to travel than some cramped up train car running on a schedule no one can figure out.

It's fine if you prefer cars. Plenty of others do not. You don't complain about subsidies because almost all money is funneled into your personal choice of transit. The simple fact is, you don't complain because there is literally no reason you would ever have to. I personally hate to drive. It's stressful and expensive and I'd rather not deal with it at all.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

AMTRAK is going to discontinue the service from Indy to Chicago very soon. Lack of ridership.

And there will be two sides to that story. The car-centric promoters will say:

"Clearly this indicates that rail travel is unpopular and an old technology no one wants anymore and we shouldn't spend anymore money on."

While transit advocates would say:

"Why should people ride a service that receives almost no funding to run and therefore has unreliable schedules and service, and when the service is not that fast to begin with(due to no funding)? It's the inevitable result of significantly lopsided subsidization of transit dollars, not lack of demand or popularity. People can't ride what either doesn't exist or offers a terrible product because it's underfunded."

[WheresTheBeef]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

And there will be two sides to that story. The car-centric promoters will say:

"Clearly this indicates that rail travel is unpopular and an old technology no one wants anymore and we shouldn't spend anymore money on."

While transit advocates would say:

"Why should people ride a service that receives almost no funding to run and therefore has unreliable schedules and service, and when the service is not that fast to begin with(due to no funding)? It's the inevitable result of significantly lopsided subsidization of transit dollars, not lack of demand or popularity. People can't ride what either doesn't exist or offers a terrible product because it's underfunded."

The problem with taking a train from Indy to Chicago is that by the time you drive from Carmel to Downtown Indy to pick up the train, you would be passing West Lafayette by car. It doesn't work because it's based on the old model of Downtown being a hub. Now, three quick stops at Greenwood, Downtown and in Northern Marion County might make ridership work a little better.

[Kevin1813]

Originally Posted by WheresTheBeef

The problem with taking a train from Indy to Chicago is that by the time you drive from Carmel to Downtown Indy to pick up the train, you would be passing West Lafayette by car. It doesn't work because it's based on the old model of Downtown being a hub. Now, three quick stops at Greenwood, Downtown and in Northern Marion County might make ridership work a little better.

Greenwood could be easily done, but Carmel might be a little tougher. Although, as you said people from Carmel could simply drive to the West Lafyette station and get on there.