Cincinnati-Indianapolis-Chicago high speed rail (Columbus, Washington: 2015, airports, moving)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

Trains are a solution looking for a problem to solve. We don't need a train to Indy or Chicago. We never will, hopefully. And, a train? Really? 800,000 pounds lugging along on its way to some train station in Chicago? And then get off and take the bus with your kids, their toys and suitcases? Lunch in the train station? Geez, is that about the dumbest idea anyone ever had?

I'm not sure why you insist on making any trip with a train the equivalent of a Chevy Chase movie.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

A buddy of mine who is a DC8 freight pilot gave me the rant I posted above. He said that if you had a pilot driving your car with the same attention to safety as he applies to flying (the factors above), a car would be a whole lot safer than a plane.

So you'd only need to spend untold billions on a car traffic control system and make everyone hire a personal "pilot", all to reach a level of safety better transit systems already have.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I won't disagree with that, but the personal car has the unfortunate necessity of being used by people.

And if trains are safe compared to most other forms, why was it brought up that they can crash?

I don't know what I was thinking. Forgive my foolishness.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

So you'd only need to spend untold billions on a car traffic control system and make everyone hire a personal "pilot", all to reach a level of safety better transit systems already have.

Perhaps you should actually consider what I posted instead of trying to dismiss it.


Don't you think yourself competent to perform the safety tips I posted above? I think i can do all of those things. Would you personally need to hire a pilot to know not to drive in the fog, or not to have an argument with your kids on a cell phone or not drive drunk? I am assuming that you are just engaging in poor debate tactics, but you really should consider the wisdom of what others post. As for the debate tactics, I am not sure it can be learned. Once a person degrades his style to personal attacks, the straw man argument, hyperbolic extensions and ridicule, it is pretty late in the game for improvement. My advice to you is stick to your strongest points, and leave the poor tactics to folks who have no strong points.

[1watertiger]

Ohio cities need to expand their light rail and transit systems before any Indy or Chicago line is discussed imo

[RustBeltOptimist]

Detroit, also about as far away from Chicago as Cincinnati is looking to have 10 daily trains between the cities:

High-speed rail would boost roundtrips between Detroit and Chicago

Their state administration seems to be less in the pockets of the tar sand asphalt industry than our state administration, and recognizes that the economic impact in return outweighs the initial cost of the investment. Btw, adding multiple daily lines to Chicago will increase the demand for and spur local transit development.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

Perhaps you should actually consider what I posted instead of trying to dismiss it.


Don't you think yourself competent to perform the safety tips I posted above? I think i can do all of those things. Would you personally need to hire a pilot to know not to drive in the fog, or not to have an argument with your kids on a cell phone or not drive drunk? I am assuming that you are just engaging in poor debate tactics, but you really should consider the wisdom of what others post. As for the debate tactics, I am not sure it can be learned. Once a person degrades his style to personal attacks, the straw man argument, hyperbolic extensions and ridicule, it is pretty late in the game for improvement. My advice to you is stick to your strongest points, and leave the poor tactics to folks who have no strong points.

What you're talking about is trying to control human behavior. Building a comprehensive passenger rail network in the next 5 years is far more likely. Good luck with that.

And I didn't personally insult you in that post, so I have no idea what you're referring to.

And really, I know your arguments, because they're so often repeated by others, mostly within your generation. You love cars, you respect cars, you "get" them. You don't with anything else. You believe that what was good enough for you should be good enough for everyone else, but sorry to say, times and people change. I can understand why you might have a difficult time with that.

[Wilson513]

My father liked trains. His father liked trains. They lived in an era of civility and decorum. We have anything but civility or decorum today. Frankly, I don't even like flying in a commercial passenger plane because of the lack of personal space, the ability of others to make my trip miserable and the inconvenience of queues and delays.

I like private transportation. The personal car fulfills that for me. Not because I am of an older generation, but because I am more protective of my own personal space.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

My father liked trains. His father liked trains. They lived in an era of civility and decorum. We have anything but civility or decorum today. Frankly, I don't even like flying in a commercial passenger plane because of the lack of personal space, the ability of others to make my trip miserable and the inconvenience of queues and delays.

I like private transportation. The personal car fulfills that for me. Not because I am of an older generation, but because I am more protective of my own personal space.

But that's basically part of the entire generational appeal of the car: personal freedom and space.

And it's not like those concepts have suddenly died out or are less appreciated. No one actually likes a plane full of rude passengers or the fact that airlines continue to eliminate space in order to pack on more people, all while the price to fly goes up. But it's not just about space. It's about being able to choose. You don't have to choose because your preferred form of transit has been so heavily subsidized over the last 100 years that there's virtually nothing else available for most people. People are forced to drive whether they want to or not, because the US has done almost nothing else but build roads for a few generations now, and the built environment, at least post-WWII, was built almost exclusively for the car. The fact that roads operate at a more significant financial loss, waste more resources, encourage far more pollution and habitat destruction and promote sprawl more than any other form of transit doesn't seem to matter. For my part, I think it matters, and I think generations like mine and the ones coming after mine are not likely to see things the same way.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

But that's basically part of the entire generational appeal of the car: personal freedom and space. I really despise the way people get into my personal space when I drive in some areas of the country like Indy. And then others when you are in close personal contact, get too close. It's rude and over bearing behavior.

And it's not like those concepts have suddenly died out or are less appreciated. No one actually likes a plane full of rude passengers or the fact that airlines continue to eliminate space in order to pack on more people, all while the price to fly goes up. But it's not just about space. It's about being able to choose. You don't have to choose because your preferred form of transit has been so heavily subsidized over the last 100 years that there's virtually nothing else available for most people. People are forced to drive whether they want to or not, because the US has done almost nothing else but build roads for a few generations now, and the built environment, at least post-WWII, was built almost exclusively for the car. The fact that roads operate at a more significant financial loss, waste more resources, encourage far more pollution and habitat destruction and promote sprawl more than any other form of transit doesn't seem to matter. For my part, I think it matters, and I think generations like mine and the ones coming after mine are not likely to see things the same way.

Personal freedom and space are two of the primary reasons this country was founded. Keep the collectivist lifestyle in Europe and build a new in North America.

I certainly believe there is room for passenger rail in this country but it simply is not going to be cost effective to use it in smaller cities and metro areas these days. Detroit's metro area is twice the size of Cincy and Indy. The corridor between Chicago-South Bend-Detroit is probably far more populated than the Chicago-Indy-Cincy route.

Simply put and I reiterate my previous statements about the financial health of the USA. We have over 16 trillion dollars in national debt. Selling off every single privately held asset as well as those owned and run by government entities would yield only about 15 trillion dollars to use towards paying off the debt. This country is on the way to going bankrupt. Until they can find a way to reverse the drain on our finances, we will never have the money to build these projects.We can only print so much money before inflation renders the dollar as completely worthless as our own currency and certainly as the world's reserve currency.