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I already did. NYC and LA are the two biggest cities, two biggest concentration of wealth, two biggest celebrity centers, two biggest entertainment centers, two biggest economic centers, two biggest ports, two biggest transportation hubs, etc. etc.
Anyone can do these comparisons for any city. I can do SF and Detroit.
SF and Detroit are both dominated by a single industry, both SF and Detroit have highly cyclical economies, both SF and Detroit are located on large bodies of water, with prominent bridges, both SF and Detroit have huge concentrations of engineering talent, both SF and Detroit are huge patent centers, both SF and Detroit have scenic downtown ballparks, both SF and Detroit have around 10% of their CSA population, both SF and Detroit have Asians dominating their skilled immigrant ranks, both SF and Detroit have most international flights going to Asia, both SF and Detroit have around the same MSA population.
See how silly that is? Now SF is Detroit, according to to your criteria. You can do this with any two cities.
But I asked you to do this with LA and SF. I'll let your comparison to Detroit speak for itself.
Research before you post so you wouldn't look so foolish.
Oh, a cute puff piece from the NYT to make people in Brooklyn feel extra special.
Sweetheart, there are studies that show flows in and around NYC and the overwhelming majority of the human flow is going INTO Manhattan. The extent of the Manhattanite's experience with Brooklyn is that glimpse they get from their driven SUVs en route to JFK Airport. Manhattanites do not leave their borough unless they're going to the Hamptons or the Maldives.
No puff piece from the NYT will change that reality.
No one cares where struggling artists live. Where do the creative elites live? Manhattan. Where is their art displayed and sold? Manhattan. Where are the studios? Manhattan.
All wrong. Creative elites tend to live outside of Manhattan these days, especially if under-50, and definitely if they're artists.
Art is displayed and sold mostly in Chelsea (Manhattan) but increasingly in Brooklyn. Studios are 99% in Brooklyn, not Manhattan. Manhattan has very little studio space these days.
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Originally Posted by UAE50
Which brings us back to my original point - people rise bright and early to make that trek into Manhattan, which by all means makes it the City. How many Manhattanites go to Brooklyn to work? Yes, exactly. No one.
Brooklyn has one of the highest concentrations of employment in the U.S. Obviously Manhattan has even more, but SF has less than both, so what's your point?
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Originally Posted by UAE50
Yet most of the creative elite live in Manhattan.
Nope. They're in Brooklyn. It's no longer 1972.
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Originally Posted by UAE50
Which is why it's so fabulous.
Manhattan is arguably fabulous but it has almost nothing to do with "creative elites" at this point. Very few non-elderly creative elites live in Manhattan in 2015.
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Originally Posted by UAE50
Which is why it's considered the greatest city in the world...it's the most economically powerful and rich. Do you think New York would still be the World's Greatest City if Manhattan went away? Hah.
Of course not. Obviously great cities have great city centers. What's your point, exactly? NYC would not be the creative center of the world without Brooklyn, but certainly Manhattan will always be the city center.
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Originally Posted by UAE50
Those super-rich people have been in Manhattan for generations. They will be there for generations to come. They are the ones that make Manhattan so grand.
I don't think Manhattan is "grand" because of long-time WASP elites, but whatever floats your boat. There's more wealthy in Manhattan and Brooklyn than SF, so I don't understand the point.
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Originally Posted by UAE50
Creative energy is moved from Brooklyn to Manhattan every morning. Again, that's why Manhattan is considered the City.
I have no idea what this means. More people work in Brooklyn than in SF, yet SF is also called the City. What does a regional term have to do with employment levels?
I am a city snob, and have lived in NYC, and I have never heard SF praised moreso than LA. LA is fascinating for urbanites, and is much more prominent in NYC than SF. SF is not really atypical in terms of urban feel, and is similar to four other vibrant U.S. cities (Boston, Philly, DC and Chicago).
SF is often praised for the liberal feel, the natural environment and the proximity to interesting stuff, and of course the Bay Area innovation is always praised, but I have never heard SF praised in terms of its density or city-ness. In Europe it probably wouldn't be in the Top 30-40 cities in urban feel. In Asia it might not make the Top 100.
Hmm. That hasn't been my experience. I've heard Los Angeles dismissed as "sprawl" and "where's the city?" (not quite in those terms but implied) while San Francisco is viewed more as a "real city" — maybe smaller and cuter, similar to Boston. The New Yorkers who I knew [grew up in NYC suburbs] were more interested in San Francisco than Los Angeles, and more moved to San Francisco for a bit. Depends on the industry — a New Yorker working in media or fashion would have more specific interest in Los Angeles.
But I asked you to do this with LA and SF. I'll let your comparison to Detroit speak for itself.
lol one of the smarter debate techniques I have seen you use anonelitist. When someone's making a poor argument just keep letting them go.
I cannot say which is definitely one way or the other. However I do see some inherit similarities to SF and Manhattan. Surrounded by water is actually something kind of important I haven't seen anyone mention. Forgive me because I actually don't know, but what is the street food scene like in SF? Like carts and trucks. Not fancy stuff, but like the basics. One of my favorite things about Manhattan that Philly doesn't have is the hot candy covered nuts.
Hell, your typical NYC outer-borough residents would equally kill themselves if they lived in as dense as an area as Manhattan as the outer-boroughs are suburbs compared to the City aka Manhattan, but that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Areas like those serve their purposes, and are extremely unique and jewels of our sprawled nation, and attract tons of money, commerce and the most tourism. Manhattan is more similar to San Francisco. From top to bottom. End of.
Not comparable. There are 4+ million residents in NYC who live in census tracts above 50,000ppsm. That's half the city. Only 93k residents live at those densities in San Francisco, about 12% of the city.
Safe to say your typical New Yorker is far more willing to live in a mega-dense environment.
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Originally Posted by NOLA101
There is nothing in the NE quadrant of SF that looks like Manhattan south of 14th Street.
That's the oldest part of Manhattan, and NE SF was built long after Manhattan south of 14th was built. They're from two totally different eras, like 100 years apart.
London predates Christ, so clearly there's no way NYC can offer a similar lifestyle. Not old enough (eye roll).
All wrong. Creative elites tend to live outside of Manhattan these days, especially if under-50, and definitely if they're artists.
Art is displayed and sold mostly in Chelsea (Manhattan) but increasingly in Brooklyn. Studios are 99% in Brooklyn, not Manhattan. Manhattan has very little studio space these days.
The vast majority of art is sold in Manhattan these days, period.
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Brooklyn has one of the highest concentrations of employment in the U.S. Obviously Manhattan has even more, but SF has less than both, so what's your point?
Low wage employment.
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Nope. They're in Brooklyn. It's no longer 1972.
They live in Manhattan.
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Manhattan is arguably fabulous but it has almost nothing to do with "creative elites" at this point. Very few non-elderly creative elites live in Manhattan in 2015.
They're in Manhattan. Anna Wintour and the top designers all live in Manhattan.
As do most of the other "creative elites".
NYC celebrity map:
Spoiler
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Of course not. Obviously great cities have great city centers. What's your point, exactly? NYC would not be the creative center of the world without Brooklyn, but certainly Manhattan will always be the city center.
Has nothing to do with the topic at hand. New York aka New York County aka Manhattan is The City. Period.
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I don't think Manhattan is "grand" because of long-time WASP elites, but whatever floats your boat.
Let's see - the cultural institutions from the Guggenheim to the Met to the MoMa -- where are they located? Manhattan? Who are the beneficiaries - Manhattan.
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There's more wealthy in Manhattan and Brooklyn than SF, so I don't understand the point.
No. SF has more rich people than Brooklyn.
$1mm+ earners, 2013
Manhattan 20,511
SF 3,023
Brooklyn 2,024
And I would bet 99% of these rich Brooklynites live on the edge of Brooklyn overlooking The City, aka Manhattan. I wonder why? Actually, I don't.
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I have no idea what this means. More people work in Brooklyn than in SF, yet SF is also called the City. What does a regional term have to do with employment levels?
Economic and cultural capitals are generally referred to as The City. How many top restaurants and museums are in Brooklyn? 1? 2? In a borough of 2.7mm? How many F500 Corporations? 0. Why is that?
Last edited by UAE50; 03-28-2015 at 01:12 PM..
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