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Why are so many people bashing San Jose? I personally think that the Downtown area is a bit shameful for its size, but I'm sure its a very nice area. You can't hate on it because of some bias posters on C-D.
Why are so many people bashing San Jose? I personally think that the Downtown area is a bit shameful for its size, but I'm sure its a very nice area. You can't hate on it because of some bias posters on C-D.
i wouldn't doubt that houston (and probably dallas as well) have more space in fewer, larger office towers, while atl probably has less space in the largest buildings but makes up for it with things like lofts converted to office in some of the very-near districts basically touching midtown/downtown, like on tech's campus, just north and west of it, in castleberry hill and edgewood just east of the freeway.
was never doubting ATL's office potential, was just pointing out how counting every building is drastically different from what the market reports do.
I think they should count converted lofts. They should also count Governmental offices, Medical offices and school towers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallaz
It seems like each list is different.
which ones?? Only Colliers and Grubb Ellis has been posted so far
Its not by mere coincidence that so many defense contractors are now located in the DC area and you shouldnt try to downplay the fact that much of their business is reliant on government spending cause who else is going to buy fighter jets and military satellite systems?
You are mistaken... I'm not downplaying. It's the opinion of those that try to hold the fact that these contract companies get their funding from government that is downplaying those businesses themselves.
The point is: A private company is still a private company whether or not that private company provides service to the government or not... If the government didn't exist, they'd have never entered that business but would have found someone else to provide their services to.
Also, not every "Government contractor" is involved in building jets and military equipment. That's just proposturous. Private companies that hold government contracts are by far the top source of IT personnel in the DC area, as well as many other areas around the nation. For example, BAE holds many many contracts. One of their biggest contractors is with a non-government, medical company, but they are considered a government contractor because they also hold a government contract.
The arguement of holding the "Government" against these companies is just ridiculous and really sounds like someone hating on DC out of Chicago arrogance... Kind of like: "Look at our skyline, we are clearly the 2nd largest downtown & how dare anyone, especially a no skyline having city like DC try to take that away from Chicago..." Sounds like a hater out there to me...
I can easily understand if DC was #2 behind NYC. I also wouldn't be surprised at #2 being Chicago... But just imagine if the numbers INCLUDED government office space... WOW!
You can't dare to try to hold government funding againsts a private company without holding (whatever is Chicago's top industry) against their private companies...
Sounds like someone is crying over Chicago's placement
Largest Suburban Totals:
1. DC- 197M
2. Houston- 158M
3. Los Angeles- 158M
4. N NJ- 142M
5. Boston- 129M
6. Atlanta- 127M
7. Chicago- 107M
8. Denver- 81M
9. Dallas- 77M (I didn't verify Dallaz's numbers but they are probably wrong )
10. Philadelphia- 61M
11. Detroit 58M
12. San Diego- 58M
13. San Jose- 56M
14. Phoenix- 53M
Largest Overalls (above 50M):
1. Manhattan- 364
2. DC- 305M
3. Chicago-237M
4. Houston- 194M
5. Boston- 193M
6. Los Angeles- 190M
7. N NJ- 152M
8. Atlanta- 144M
9. Denver- 108M
10. Philadelphia- 105M
11. Dallas- 104M (I didn't verify Dallaz's numbers but they are probably wrong )
12. Seattle- 90M
13. Detroit- 71M
13. Minneapolis- 71M
15. Phoenix- 69M
16. San Diego- 69M
17. San Francisco- 66M
18. San Jose- 64M
19. Portland- 53M
20. Pittsburgh- 51M
This list makes a lot of sense to me...
DC is such a small "CITY" in area, but it definitely has one of the top busiest downtown/city centers. People from as far away as VA Beach, West VA, Pennsylvania and Jersey actually commute to DC for work. (Those people are crazy, but I meed them all the time in DC).
Surprised to see Phoenix so high! Go PHX!!! I can't imagine there being less office space around San Fran, San Diego and Pittsburgh than around here in PHX. Well, I guess that number does include all the other districts like Mesa, Tempe and Scottsdale, huh?
Still curious where New Orleans and Baltimore fall...
Also, I see ATL pretty high on the list... Go ATL!!!
BUT, I'm curious how different the list changes if the numbers reflect people that actually WORK in downtown office space as opposed to square feet of office space... From what I remember, ATL has LOTS of office SPACE, but also among the highest vacancy rates... There are skyscrapers in Downtown/Midtown ATL that are like half vacant.
This list makes a lot of sense to me...
DC is such a small "CITY" in area, but it definitely has one of the top busiest downtown/city centers. People from as far away as VA Beach, West VA, Pennsylvania and Jersey actually commute to DC for work. (Those people are crazy, but I meed them all the time in DC).
That list was for suburban development, ie, everything outside the downtown center.
Quote:
Surprised to see Phoenix so high! Go PHX!!! I can't imagine there being less office space around San Fran, San Diego and Pittsburgh than around here in PHX. Well, I guess that number does include all the other districts like Mesa, Tempe and Scottsdale, huh?
Again that was for suburban areas, SF does not have as large a suburban land mass as Phoenix. In addition the numbers for SF doe not include areas in Oakland for example.
Quote:
Still curious where New Orleans and Baltimore fall...
I am curious about those too. tell me if you find them.
Quote:
Also, I see ATL pretty high on the list... Go ATL!!!
BUT, I'm curious how different the list changes if the numbers reflect people that actually WORK in downtown office space as opposed to square feet of office space... From what I remember, ATL has LOTS of office SPACE, but also among the highest vacancy rates... There are skyscrapers in Downtown/Midtown ATL that are like half vacant. Can anyone find out those numbers?
Sure:
Top 20 Largest Central Business Districts by Employment Population:
01. New York City: 1,736,900
02. Chicago: 541,500
03. Washington DC: 382,400
04. Bay Area: 305,600
05. Boston: 257,000
06. Philadelphia: 220,100
07. Seattle: 155,100
08. Houston: 153,400
09. Los Angeles: 143,700
10. Atlanta: 129,800
11. Denver: 126,000
12. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 105,400
13. Cleveland: 100,300
14. Baltimore: 98,500
15. Miami: 98,000
16. Pittsburgh: 95,600
17. Columbus: 88,800
18. Austin: 86,000
19. New Orleans: 81,400
20. Dallas-Fort Worth: 79,900
Top 20 Largest Central Business Districts by Land Area:
01. New York City: 7.82 Square Miles
02. Chicago: 3.36 Square Miles
03. Miami: 2.91 Square Miles
04. Columbus: 2.47 Square Miles
05. Bay Area: 2.34 Square Miles
06. Washington DC: 2.30 Square Miles
07. Atlanta: 2.17 Square Miles
08. Philadelphia: 1.71 Square Miles
09. Austin: 1.59 Square Miles
10. Cleveland: 1.54 Square Miles
11. Houston: 1.53 Square Miles (Tie with Denver)
12. Denver: 1.53 Square Miles (Tie with Houston)
13. Seattle: 1.48 Square Miles
14. Los Angeles: 1.25 Square Miles
15. Boston: 1.23 Square Miles
16. Baltimore: 1.09 Square Miles
17. New Orleans: 1.06 Square Miles
18. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 0.72 Square Miles
19. Dallas-Fort Worth: 0.67 Square Miles
20. Pittsburgh: 0.66 Square Miles
To Compare, here are the top CBD's again in terms of sf:
1. Midtown Manhattan- 213,818,31
2. CBD Chicago- 130,317,15
3. CBD DC- 107,337,31
4. DT Manhattan- 76,000,76
5. MT S Manhattan- 74,577,47
6. CBD Boston- 64,407,32
7. CBD SF- 45,176,67
8. CBD Philadelphia- 44,261,375
9. CBD Houston- 43,214,941
10. CBD LA- 32,159,55
11. Minneapolis- 28,299,243 (The report lists St P separately and then combines them in the end as one district)
12. Pittsburgh- 27,841,801 (they included fringe areas)
13. CBD Dallas- 26,890,00 (The report lists FW separately and then combines them in the end as one district)
14. Denver- 26,493,570
15. Cleveland- 21,969,702
16. Portland- 19,779,070
17. CBD Atlanta- 17,288,368
18. Phoenix- 15,779,714
19. Indianapolis- 14,709,070
20. Detroit- 13,187,372
21. Miami- 13,133,897
22. Milwaukee- 12,439,588
23. Columbus- 12,289,442
24. Cincinnati- 11,919,525
25. San Diego- 11,393,918
26. St Paul- 10,059,518
27. Fort Worth- 9,956,82
28. Austin- 8,490,93
29. San Jose- 8,355,347
Interesting, the top 8 for Office space and employment follow the almost identical order
1. NY
2. Chicago
3. DC
4,5 Boston and SF
6. Philly
7. Houston
8. LA
Top 20 Largest Central Business Districts by Employment Population:
01. New York City: 1,736,900
02. Chicago: 541,500
03. Washington DC: 382,400
04. Bay Area: 305,600
05. Boston: 257,000
06. Philadelphia: 220,100
07. Seattle: 155,100
08. Houston: 153,400
09. Los Angeles: 143,700
10. Atlanta: 129,800
11. Denver: 126,000
12. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 105,400
13. Cleveland: 100,300
14. Baltimore: 98,500
15. Miami: 98,000
16. Pittsburgh: 95,600
17. Columbus: 88,800
18. Austin: 86,000
19. New Orleans: 81,400
20. Dallas-Fort Worth: 79,900
Top 20 Largest Central Business Districts by Land Area:
01. New York City: 7.82 Square Miles
02. Chicago: 3.36 Square Miles
03. Miami: 2.91 Square Miles
04. Columbus: 2.47 Square Miles
05. Bay Area: 2.34 Square Miles
06. Washington DC: 2.30 Square Miles
07. Atlanta: 2.17 Square Miles
08. Philadelphia: 1.71 Square Miles
09. Austin: 1.59 Square Miles
10. Cleveland: 1.54 Square Miles
11. Houston: 1.53 Square Miles (Tie with Denver)
12. Denver: 1.53 Square Miles (Tie with Houston)
13. Seattle: 1.48 Square Miles
14. Los Angeles: 1.25 Square Miles
15. Boston: 1.23 Square Miles
16. Baltimore: 1.09 Square Miles
17. New Orleans: 1.06 Square Miles
18. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 0.72 Square Miles
19. Dallas-Fort Worth: 0.67 Square Miles
20. Pittsburgh: 0.66 Square Miles
To Compare, here are the top CBD's again in terms of sf:
1. Midtown Manhattan- 213,818,31
2. CBD Chicago- 130,317,15
3. CBD DC- 107,337,31
4. DT Manhattan- 76,000,76
5. MT S Manhattan- 74,577,47
6. CBD Boston- 64,407,32
7. CBD SF- 45,176,67
8. CBD Philadelphia- 44,261,375
9. CBD Houston- 43,214,941
10. CBD LA- 32,159,55
11. Minneapolis- 28,299,243 (The report lists St P separately and then combines them in the end as one district)
12. Pittsburgh- 27,841,801 (they included fringe areas)
13. CBD Dallas- 26,890,00 (The report lists FW separately and then combines them in the end as one district)
14. Denver- 26,493,570
15. Cleveland- 21,969,702
16. Portland- 19,779,070
17. CBD Atlanta- 17,288,368
18. Phoenix- 15,779,714
19. Indianapolis- 14,709,070
20. Detroit- 13,187,372
21. Miami- 13,133,897
22. Milwaukee- 12,439,588
23. Columbus- 12,289,442
24. Cincinnati- 11,919,525
25. San Diego- 11,393,918
26. St Paul- 10,059,518
27. Fort Worth- 9,956,82
28. Austin- 8,490,93
29. San Jose- 8,355,347
Interesting, the top 8 for Office space and employment follow the almost identical order
1. NY
2. Chicago
3. DC
4,5 Boston and SF
6. Philly
7. Houston
8. LA
This list is GREAT! Thanks!!!
Awe..... But Phoenix disappeared again (in the lists that don't include suburbs...) . Well, can't say I'm surprised. Downtown Phoenix is so quiet and boring compared to most of these other cities.
I AM surprised to see Atlanta still in the top 10 in downtown employment. GO ATL!!!
HEY!!! THERE'S Baltimore showing up on 2 lists!!!!
Awe..... But Phoenix disappeared again (in the lists that don't include suburbs...) . Well, can't say I'm surprised. Downtown Phoenix is so quiet and boring compared to most of these other cities.
I AM surprised to see Atlanta still in the top 10 in downtown employment. GO ATL!!!
HEY!!! THERE'S Baltimore showing up on 2 lists!!!!
NEW Orleans showed up too.
Its funny that New Orleans, Baltimore, ATL and other small cities make the top 20 but Phoenix, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas, and San Jose are the 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th largest cities in the US and non of them make it in the top 20 for employment.
Keep in mind tho, these numbers are from 2000, so things may have changed in some areas
Awe..... But Phoenix disappeared again (in the lists that don't include suburbs...) . Well, can't say I'm surprised. Downtown Phoenix is so quiet and boring compared to most of these other cities.
I AM surprised to see Atlanta still in the top 10 in downtown employment. GO ATL!!!
HEY!!! THERE'S Baltimore showing up on 2 lists!!!!
That list you responded to is extremely incorrect. Pittsburgh downtown soars during business hours to almost 200k. Indianapolis Downtown Pop goes to approx. 110k and downtowndenver.com has their downtown population at 110k. His source is highly flawed.
Land Area is definitely off, if he's referring to just the "financial area" of a city's downtown, it's still off, if it's entire CBD then it's way off.
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)
. Well, can't say I'm surprised. Downtown Phoenix is so quiet and boring compared to most of these other cities.
