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I don't see any of that in DC or Baltimore (which is even blacker than DC). I think part of it is because there was never really much beyond black and white in these cities (the size of the Italian population in B-more has been significantly overstated).
I doubt it. I don't think the rhoticity/non-rhoticity is the thing most people are going to key in on. The Baltimore accent is southern sounding and I think that's what people are going to pick up on more than anything else.
And this makes sense considering that: (1) Baltimore has been a southern city for most of its history and (2) Baltimore received a large influx of white southerners in the mid 20th Century. Since southern dialects are very easy for most Americans to discern, I don't see how it would be possible to confuse a Philadelphian and a Baltimorean.
I won't deny southern influences on the Baltimore accent, nor that Baltimore has a southern history. And I haven't and won't say the two accents sound the same, but these two accents share a lot of vowel sounds that are unique to only these two cities (and the spaces in between). The two accents are of the same "family" if you will, despite Bmore having more southern influence in it.
The rhoticity/non-rhoticity is just ONE common trait.
The Long "O" that sounds more like "eau," i.e., "Atlannic Eaushun" is another.
The pronunciation of "south" as "sailth" is another.
The pronunciation of "north" as "newerth" is another.
The pronunciation of "water" as "wooder" is another.
The pronunciation of "street" as "shtreet" is another.
The slight "ea" sound at the beginning of a word that starts with a short A, i.e., "eask a question" is another.
The "canadian raising" in the Long "I" sound, but no other vowel sound, is another.
Swallowed "T" and "D" consonants in the middle of words, i.e. "Phulluffya" and "Bawlmer" is another.
And so on.
To me, these traits stick out like sore thumbs, and I notice them before I notice the "southernness" of the Baltimore accent or the "northernness" of the Philadelphia accent. Because these traits make these accents unique from their northern and southern neighbors. There aren't other areas on earth where you hear this combination of traits. Yes, there are differences, and you can pick the differences apart, but the two are related.
I don't view Italians as being really "white" the same way I don't view Jews as being "white." They are ethnic whites as opposed to, I dunno, regular, run-of-the-mill white. There's more to distinguish them both phenotypically and culturally from other "whites." I don't think of James Galdofini (R.I.P.) the same way I think about Brad Pitt (no homo).
I don't view Italians as being really "white" the same way I don't view Jews as being "white." They are ethnic whites as opposed to, I dunno, regular, run-of-the-mill white. There's more to distinguish them both phenotypically and culturally from other "whites." I don't think of James Galdofini (R.I.P.) the same way I think about Brad Pitt (no homo).
How much difference these days are there between different "ethnic" or "non-ethnic" whites these days? There's some, but it's minor IMO compared to 40 years ago. I'd consider Italian-American as much "regular whites" as "WASPs". The latter was much less common than the former back home anyway, so perhaps less regular.
To me, these traits stick out like sore thumbs, and I notice them before I notice the "southernness" of the Baltimore accent or the "northernness" of the Philadelphia accent. Because these traits make these accents unique from their northern and southern neighbors. There aren't other areas on earth where you hear this combination of traits. Yes, there are differences, and you can pick the differences apart, but the two are related.
I think the southerness would stick out more than the traits you've identified. I mean, why would these other things stick out when nearly all Americans are familar with southern accents?
Also, I think there are few Philadelphians whose speech possesses most of those things. You come across plenty of New Yorkers who exhibit all of the characteristics of the New York accent, but the "Philly accent" is harder to pin down. There's really no one person you can point to and say, "Ah, that's quintessentially Philadelphia."
I personally do not have any type of accent (or so I believe). And I've always considered Philly to be the most neutral of northeastern cities in this regard.
Last edited by BajanYankee; 09-16-2013 at 12:47 PM..
This feature is distinctive of the coastal Northeast southward. Article claims up to Baltimore. It's not that well known, but if you listen to someone's speech, it's very obvious if someone has it or not.
How much difference these days are there between different "ethnic" or "non-ethnic" whites these days? There's some, but it's minor IMO compared to 40 years ago. I'd consider Italian-American as much "regular whites" as "WASPs". The latter was much less common than the former back home anyway, so perhaps less regular.
Well, if you're talking about Jews, then you're talking about a completely different religion, customs, traditions, etc. And there's more of a sense of "us" and ethnic identity than there is among, say, German-Americans, British-Americans, etc., etc. Italians have less of that. But there's still a greater willingness to express ethnic identity, imo.
Not to mention that there are certain things that are characteristic of many Italians (like there are certain things characterisitic of Jewish grandmothers).
How much difference these days are there between different "ethnic" or "non-ethnic" whites these days? There's some, but it's minor IMO compared to 40 years ago. I'd consider Italian-American as much "regular whites" as "WASPs". The latter was much less common than the former back home anyway, so perhaps less regular.
Even though it may not be as politically correct. I do understand what BajanYankee is trying to say with that statement.
Even though it may not be as politically correct. I do understand what BajanYankee is trying to say with that statement.
LOL. No, it's not politically correct. But there are differences. And I know several ladies like the one the guy in the video below is pretending to be. You don't have to look very hard to find this in Philly. Non-existent in DC.
When most people think of sit-ins at lunch counters and "whites only" and "colored" water fountains, they think of Selma, Alabama, not Washington, DC or Baltimore. Similarly, when people think of Harriet Tubman, they think of her taking slaves from deep in Virginia to the North, not her rescuing slaves from bondage in Maryland. Way too much white washing and sanitizing of history (and simply flat out downplaying it and ignoring it).
So what if there were sit-ins? That makes a place the South? You really need to get therapy of your hatred of Maryland.
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