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Noooooo, he didn't. You're just advocating for him because you believe Baltimore and Richmond are one and the same, and because anybody who disagrees with me is automatically your friend. Well done for showing your true colors.
Richmond and Baltimore one in the same? I'm really not seeing it.
Richmond and Baltimore one in the same? I'm really not seeing it.
Different thread entirely, and while they are certainly NOT "one and the same", Baltimore and Richmond are very alike. That isn't to say Baltimore isn't 'moreso' like Philly; maybe it is, and I've never been to Philly so I have no reason to believe people who suggest it are lying. Notwithstanding, Baltimore and Richmond share several commonalities. It should be clear to anyone who has spent time in both. People on this forum act like Richmond is some boring, nowhere town...
On topic, I've never been to Ohio. But I've been all through Central PA (Williamsport down to Harrisburg, to Gettysburg, and environs in between), and I've been to Frederick and Baltimore multiple times. There are similarities right across the border (Gettysburg) with suburban Maryland, sure. However, by and large, PA (at least Central PA) has far more in common with Upstate NY, from the rural communities to the urban areas. I live in Elmira, and have been through most of the Upstate. As far as urban PA, I haven't saw anything that reminds of Maryland. So I'll leavr the possibility open of a Baltimore/Philly connection, but sans that, the biggest similarities are right around the state lines. Suburban Harrisburg is very different in physical appearance from suburban Baltimore. Williamsport is very different in appearance from Frederick. And rural/country PA is very different from rural/country MD, the scenery is just too different. So maybe Ohio wins this, but without dou bt, New York State is more like PA than Maryland...
Different thread entirely, and while they are certainly NOT "one and the same", Baltimore and Richmond are very alike. That isn't to say Baltimore isn't 'moreso' like Philly; maybe it is, and I've never been to Philly so I have no reason to believe people who suggest it are lying. Notwithstanding, Baltimore and Richmond share several commonalities. It should be clear to anyone who has spent time in both. People on this forum act like Richmond is some boring, nowhere town...
On topic, I've never been to Ohio. But I've been all through Central PA (Williamsport down to Harrisburg, to Gettysburg, and environs in between), and I've been to Frederick and Baltimore multiple times. There are similarities right across the border (Gettysburg) with suburban Maryland, sure. However, by and large, PA (at least Central PA) has far more in common with Upstate NY, from the rural communities to the urban areas. I live in Elmira, and have been through most of the Upstate. As far as urban PA, I haven't saw anything that reminds of Maryland. So I'll leavr the possibility open of a Baltimore/Philly connection, but sans that, the biggest similarities are right around the state lines. Suburban Harrisburg is very different in physical appearance from suburban Baltimore. Williamsport is very different in appearance from Frederick. And rural/country PA is very different from rural/country MD, the scenery is just too different. So maybe Ohio wins this, but without dou bt, New York State is more like PA than Maryland...
Southern Pennsylvania and Southern New Jersey have a lot in common with Maryland. Even Northern Virginia is culturally and linguistically more similar to Pennsylvania than it is to the rest of Virginia. Baltimore is definitely more of a Northeastern city, while Richmond is more of a Southern one, having more in common with Charlotte. And Harrisburg isn't nearly as different culturally or linguistically from Baltimore as Richmond is. That's a fact.
^^^This is where I call bs, because hardly anything you stated could be deemed as fact...
I'll agree that extrem South Central/South East PA are very similar to Maryland; I essentially said the same thing. However, once you hit York, or once you pass Gettysburg on 15 going north, you are most definitely in PA. South of these areas is farmland and of course the states blend into each other; ALL states resemble their neighbors around the borders. And again, Philly and Baltimore probably mirror each other, I wont deny that. But it becomes noticeably different as soon as you're an hour deep into Pennsylvania, and the further north you go, and more areas ypu visit, clearly Maryland has less in common with PA than New York. Dont know enough to talk about Ohio...
You've told on yourself in your post with how unfamiliar you are with these areas:
Linguistically: Northern Virginians tend to have the DC accent, which is more exotic, for lack of a better descriptive, than other Northern accents, because DC--linguistically--is a merger of the Tidewater and Baltimore accents; Baltimore, in and of itself, is Tidewater-lite, just harder, due to its geography. The Susquehanna Region of PA has a distinctive sound, and Harrisburg-York accents are noticeably different from Baltimore and Nova's. PA accents (sans Philly, as has already been mentioned, has more in common with Jersey and is an anomaly within its state) are for the most part flatter, and words arent as hurried as they are within the DC-Baltimore CSA...
When you add Richmond into this, you are talking about an accent that is a merger of Tidewater, DC, and Old South, which is light in tone, not the heavy, thick drawl most associate with Southerners. This obvioud ly highlights that you haven't spent meaningful time in Richmond, because--linguistically--Richmond accents are more in common with Baltimore than Charlotte. In fact, you could spend a weekend in Richmond and probably count on your hands how many people you hear speaking in traditional Virginia Southern. Do we soumd extra-Southern to Northerners? Sure, but dont kid yourself: I live in New York State. Baltimore and DC are both considered "country" up here, both in language and culture. So that alone validates nothing. In comparison to the different accents of the Southern US, Richmond, and much of VA, has more in common with some Northern accents than Southern ones. Especially when you make an absurd statement saying Richmond sounds more like Charlotte...
Culturally: your words betry your experience once again, as you compared Richmond culturally more alike to Charlotte than Baltimore. In what? Not history, as these cities have similar beginnings. Not in the way the cities wete developed. Not linguistically, and certainly not in the urban core areas of the cities. City-data.com is your friend, but spending time in these cities for authentic life experience is the greatest teacher. Richmond doesnt even look like Charlotte, but it is very similar tomm Baltimore physically; Baltimore is urban over a larger area, is a larger city and obviously has the advantages of being a larger city than Richmond does. Butmmm you're really reaching with these statements. Comparatively, there isn't a city in the Southern US south of VA's state line that is a mirror image of Richmond. Also, you're completely ignoring the fact that Baltimore and Richmond are seperated by ~150 miles. Charlotte is twice the distance from Richmond, roughly. Add to that, the travel from Charlotte to Richmond is much more rural , whereas the travel to Baltimore is mostly urban/suburban and much more 'busy'. I mean seriously, how different do you really expect Richmond and Baltimore to be? Obviously, differences are there. But Richmind sits just barely south of the Bos-Wash corridor with regular DC-Richmond commutes. Charlotte sits in the Piedmont heading to Atlanta...
On to Harrisburg, which culturally is dissimilar from Baltimore. I'd never thought Harrisburg and Baltimore were too similar besides the fact both have ****ty roads and large poverty. Demographically, Harrisburg is more diverse in population, which is reflected on street level interactions. Baltimore and Richmond are damn near twin cities demographically. Harrisburg is more compact, which is telling of its density, and its architecture is much more varied than Baltimore, with generally speaking, is just rowhouse after rowhouse after rowhouse. Baltimore may have more in commin with Philly, but is certainly different in look and feel from the Susquehanna Valley...
Lastly, what made it most telling that you dont know what you're talking about is the fact that I'm very familiar with all cities mentioned. I was raised in Richmond's southern suburbs, just south of the city. While I have no familial ties to Baltimore, I've been plenty of times, as I do have family in DC and Baltimore is just a skip down the road. I have an aunt who worked for the City of Harrisburg and family in New Cumberland, a western suburb, and love that city. I'll be moving to Charlotte on October 2nd, and as a former resident of Fayetteville NC have been to Charlotte four times, enough to know it isn't much like Richmond. Neither Baltimore nor Charlotte are any of my favorite places, as one is largely a desolate has-been, and the other is just not that urban outside Uptown. You lose this debate...
I've recently come up with a new concept called "Baja Pennsylvania." Allow me to elaborate...
Pennsylvania has been a relatively influential state throughout its history, and some of that influence has bled into adjacent states. This isn't discounting the cultures of other states, though; it's just saying that a little bit of Pennsylvania has mixed in with certain other states' cultures. The same phenomenon has happened in reverse in a couple of areas as well.
Anyway, if you look at the map above (sorry, it's a bit small), the counties shaded in DARK BLUE are "quintessential Pennsylvania." This is where Pennsylvania culture as we know it originated from. Now you'll notice that several counties in other adjacent states are shaded in different colors as well. These counties are what I consider to be "Baja Pennsylvania." The counties shaded in TEAL have influences from western Pennsylvania, including east-central Ohio, northern West Virginia and western Maryland. The counties shaded in GREEN have influences from central Pennsylvania, including eastern West Virginia, north-central Maryland and northern Virginia. The counties shaded in BLUE have influences from eastern Pennsylvania, including northeastern Maryland, northern Delaware, and inland parts of southern New Jersey. (Areas that border the Atlantic Ocean are a bit too "beachy" to have much cultural influence from an inland state like Pennsylvania.)
In these shaded areas, it's possible to detect a gradient of cultural influence from Pennsylvania, with stronger influence the closer you get, and gradually weaker influence the farther away you go. An example I like to use is what I call the "Harrisburg/Harrisonburg gradient" or "Pennsylginia." The Philadelphia Wagon Road gave the Shenendoah Valley in Virginia a bit of central Pennsylvania flavor that helped differentiate it somewhat from quintessential "Tidewater Virginia." And Washington DC and Maryland are essentially the bridge between Pennsylvania and Virginia, with strong influence from both cultures.
ASIDE: The blend of Pennsylvania and Virginia cultures has also influenced cultures in the interior South. Settlers from both states made their way west by river, with Pennsylvanians taking the Ohio River, and Virginians taking the Tennessee River. As they spread out away from the rivers, they commingled in Kentucky, Tennessee, and parts of southern Ohio and southern Indiana.
Back to the map, I also gave different colors to the counties in Pennsylvania that have influences from adjacent states. The counties shaded in PURPLE have influences from northeastern Ohio; the counties shaded in LAVENDER have influences from upstate New York, and the counties shaded in MAGENTA have influences from downstate New York and northern New Jersey. Since those areas of Pennsylvania are more thinly populated and farther removed from Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, they tend to have some influences from areas closer by, including those in adjacent states.
Linguistically, Baltimore, Philly, and South jersey fall into the same category. There's no tidewater in Baltimore. DC doesn't fall into the same category as Baltimore.
York, PA and most of South Central Pa is unique because it's really where Baltimore, Philly and NYC meet. You can walk up to any three random people and they'll likely be from one of those three cities; even more likely to consider Baltimore thier closest big city.
Bro, the Baltimore accent is not much different from Tidewater. I'm certainly not an expert on linguistic patterns, by trade, but I do think I'm fairly knowledgeable here. How Michael Vick speaks? Thats Tidewater. How Allen iverson speaks? Thats Tidewater. Its not quite Northern, although it has Northern flections. It isn't thick Southern either, but it is a Southern dialect...
The Tidewater accent is far more influential and civers a larger area than any map I've ever seen depict it. I'd say its probabky more of a "Chesapeake" or "coastal" accent, but it most definitely has patterns in a large area.Baltimore-DC accents arent altogether that unique. The cities in themselves are slightly different, but they're both mostly a mash-up/combination of different accents, than stand alone accents themselves. That isn't to say that Baltimore isn't influenced by Philly in dialect as well; in fact, that proves my point. But you're wildin a lil bit to say you ho to York and "any three people" could be from elsewhere. Whether or not they consider Baltimore their closest big city; I mean, theoretically, they could, if they eanted to. But most of the people in York are Pennsylvanians. Come on, guy....
More to the point of accents, Baltimore has noticeable Southern tone in its dialect. Not "mostly" Southern, but it exists, and in fact this website i s full of people who have noticed it. Why do you think that exists? The "Southern" in Baltimore speech is that Tidewater in it! Come to New York, City or Upstate. Lol they'll tell you how Southern you sound....
Bro, the Baltimore accent is not much different from Tidewater. I'm certainly not an expert on linguistic patterns, by trade, but I do think I'm fairly knowledgeable here. How Michael Vick speaks? Thats Tidewater. How Allen iverson speaks? Thats Tidewater. Its not quite Northern, although it has Northern flections. It isn't thick Southern either, but it is a Southern dialect...
The Tidewater accent is far more influential and civers a larger area than any map I've ever seen depict it. I'd say its probabky more of a "Chesapeake" or "coastal" accent, but it most definitely has patterns in a large area.Baltimore-DC accents arent altogether that unique. The cities in themselves are slightly different, but they're both mostly a mash-up/combination of different accents, than stand alone accents themselves. That isn't to say that Baltimore isn't influenced by Philly in dialect as well; in fact, that proves my point. But you're wildin a lil bit to say you ho to York and "any three people" could be from elsewhere. Whether or not they consider Baltimore their closest big city; I mean, theoretically, they could, if they eanted to. But most of the people in York are Pennsylvanians. Come on, guy....
More to the point of accents, Baltimore has noticeable Southern tone in its dialect. Not "mostly" Southern, but it exists, and in fact this website i s full of people who have noticed it. Why do you think that exists? The "Southern" in Baltimore speech is that Tidewater in it! Come to New York, City or Upstate. Lol they'll tell you how Southern you sound....
That's your opinion. We just see and hear things differently.
I agree Philly is more related to New Jersey than Pennsylvania, and of course more similar to Jersey than Maryland. Pennsylvania as a whole is more similar to New York than Ohio or Maryland
how so? Philadelphia is in, uh, PA. Sorry but this is an asinine statement.
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"Baja Pennsylvania"
