Greensboro, North Carolina vs. Greenville, South Carolina (rates, comparison, Chicago)

[Big Aristotle]

Originally Posted by drfranklin

Have any of the above posters lived in both cities? My family and I currently reside near downtown Greenville, SC. My wife is from Greensboro and we travel there every 2-3 months. I've been traveling to Greensboro since the early 1990's. Also, we've lived in various parts of the Upstate for more than 10 years.

Some Pro's and Con's (my opinion only)

Greenville, SC

Pros

• Incredible downtown revitalization - much better than Greensboro - one only needs to go to Falls Park to realize this
• Easy access to the mountains of NC/Asheville/hiking/waterfalls
• Very good public schools near downtown Greenville (you don't have to live in the suburbs)
• Great shopping/amenities that nearly equal the Triad (Trader Joes, REI, Total Wine, Apple Store, Whole Foods, etc) - Haywood is still lackluster but has made significant improvements in the past 2 years (cheesecake factory!)
• Economically vibrant area (to me)

Cons

• Real estate has become incredibly expensive near downtown Greenville, almost bubble-like
• Infrastructure is absolutely abysmal (compared to the Triad) - this is very slowly improving
• I'd like a little more snow in the winter and vibrant fall colors (fall colors are more muted here) - Greensboro offers both
• State income taxes in SC are very high

Greensboro, NC

Pros

• Great interstate system - fantastic infrastructure (the opposite of Upstate SC)
• Friendly Shopping Center - much more aesthetically appealing than Haywood
• Fall in the Triad - fall colors are vibrant (my opinion only)
• State income tax is 5.75%
• Relatively close to Boone/High Country
• Greensboro Aquatic Center - incredible facility - my children are competitive swimmers and I was amazed at this venue during a recent event - nothing like that in the Upstate
• Upcoming Tanger Performing Arts Center - this should kickstart additional downtown growth just like the Peace Center
• NC offers a fantastic state university system - Greensboro has UNCG
• Greensboro real estate that are zoned for excellent public schools seem like a bargain to me compared to the city of Greenville (this could be a con as well)

Cons

• Downtown - quite lackluster compared to Greenville - no water feature
• Not as economically vibrant as Upstate SC (to me)

Very good analysis. In my opinion, Greenville, SC should be the model for small city downtown revitalization, development codes, etc. However, Greenville had a wealth of natural resources to work with so it'll be difficult for places like Greensboro to duplicate that success story.

Greenville provides quick access to Atlanta for big city experience/amenities, Charlotte on a smaller scale is accessible from both cities. Greensboro is much more diverse and is home to the largest Historically Black College and University in the country (NC A&T) in addition to UNCG's beautiful and expanding campus. UNCG campus expansion is literally urbanizing segments of Gate City Blvd at a remarkable pace.

Greenville seems much more economically progressive whereas Greensboro is snarled between RDU and Charlotte making it difficult to keep up and compete from a state perspective. Hands down, Greensboro has the best interstate/freeway infrastructure in the Carolinas. In addition, several parks with water features in the development stage and other planned expansion down South Elm. In my opinion, considering what Greensboro has to work with downtown wise, it has done less with more than any other city in the Carolinas during the central core revitalization boom. As a poster stated, Elm St. is highly underutilized with loads of potential to be on par with the likes of Greenville.

Either way, Greenville or Greensboro, good solid choices to set up shop. Great locations with regional to access to a multitude of places, etc.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by Big Aristotle

Greensboro is much more diverse and is home to the largest Historically Black College and University in the country (NC A&T) in addition to UNCG's beautiful and expanding campus.

I agree with everything you stated but I wouldn't say Greensboro is much more diverse; it just has a larger Black population (41%) than Greenville (32%) but both have small Hispanic and Asian populations (less than 10%). Also what helps Greenville is that the Upstate has the most international investment per capita in the entire country, so you often have business leaders from other counties visiting the city on a semi-regular basis.

[drrckmtthws]

Originally Posted by le roi

20-30 years ago they were very similar. Greenville has gotten wealthier, though, while Greensboro has not. On the bright side Greensboro is very affordable.

I lived in northwest Greensboro for a bit, it is a nice place, but boring.

When was that? Greensboro, well the triad as a whole(well at least Gboro and Winston, don't really keep up with High Point) has been building up, I graduated From A&T in 2010, I still visit from time to time and can say there are several things there now that wasn't there then.

[murksiderock]

I love how the universities in Greensboro are integrated into the city fabric. I was there Saturday and Sunday and have a bit more of a favorable opinion than when I went earlier this year. The downtown is still quite sad. The nightlife on Spring Garden by UNCG is quite entertaining, though again, it's just too small. These tiny pockets of nightlife are just underwhelming I'm size and quantity for a city with a metro approaching 1.6 million. Is the nightlife better (more vast, more diverse, larger) in Winston?

Greensboro is quite pretty, and a little more urban than I initially thought...

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

I love how the universities in Greensboro are integrated into the city fabric. I was there Saturday and Sunday and have a bit more of a favorable opinion than when I went earlier this year. The downtown is still quite sad. The nightlife on Spring Garden by UNCG is quite entertaining, though again, it's just too small. These tiny pockets of nightlife are just underwhelming I'm size and quantity for a city with a metro approaching 1.6 million. Is the nightlife better (more vast, more diverse, larger) in Winston?

Greensboro is quite pretty, and a little more urban than I initially thought...

Personally I think you're just a bit too hard on Greensboro. I wouldn't call downtown "sad;" it has a small footprint but I think Elm Street is pretty charming, vibrant at night (particularly weekends), and even though the railroad tracks break up the momentum, it kind of gives South Elm its own flavor. The ballpark is really nice, as is Center City Park and a new park is under construction which will connect with CCP. The new performing arts venue will also be a shot in the arm for downtown.

Also, it's misleading to use that 1.6 million figure since that is for the CSA and Greensboro is not the sole primary city in the CSA. For an MSA of 750K, the city doesn't do too shabby. One thing I've always liked about the city is that it overperforms as a convention/special events destination due to the size of Koury/Sheraton and the coliseum. It tends to get large events that would normally not go to a city/metro of its size.

[drrckmtthws]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

I love how the universities in Greensboro are integrated into the city fabric. I was there Saturday and Sunday and have a bit more of a favorable opinion than when I went earlier this year. The downtown is still quite sad. The nightlife on Spring Garden by UNCG is quite entertaining, though again, it's just too small. These tiny pockets of nightlife are just underwhelming I'm size and quantity for a city with a metro approaching 1.6 million. Is the nightlife better (more vast, more diverse, larger) in Winston?

Greensboro is quite pretty, and a little more urban than I initially thought...

It's always like that during the summer. This is because with A&T, Bennett, UNCG, Greensboro College, all being down the road from each other and close to downtown. Guilford College just being a little further down the road, things are geared towards college students. So when those college students leave during the summer, downtown in general becomes quieter. That said, this is changing with the house of blues affiliated cone denim, at least 3 new breweries, A barcade(bar arcade) right across from one of those new breweries, and other new developments downtown.

Moved after graduation, but still say that the triad gets slept on and has a lot of potential.

[murksiderock]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

Personally I think you're just a bit too hard on Greensboro. I wouldn't call downtown "sad;" it has a small footprint but I think Elm Street is pretty charming, vibrant at night (particularly weekends), and even though the railroad tracks break up the momentum, it kind of gives South Elm its own flavor. The ballpark is really nice, as is Center City Park and a new park is under construction which will connect with CCP. The new performing arts venue will also be a shot in the arm for downtown.

Also, it's misleading to use that 1.6 million figure since that is for the CSA and Greensboro is not the sole primary city in the CSA. For an MSA of 750K, the city doesn't do too shabby. One thing I've always liked about the city is that it overperforms as a convention/special events destination due to the size of Koury/Sheraton and the coliseum. It tends to get large events that would normally not go to a city/metro of its size.

Well, the MSA definition is what's truly misleading. The Triad is a metro that for some reason is broken into 3 separate "metros" thar all interconnected. Only us city nerds on this site consider the Greensboro "metro" only 750k. You used to live in Carolina, as did I, you know that. The Greensboro metro in the real world is referred to as as the entire Triad which includes Burlington and Winston. In real life...

As such, for a ~1.6 million person metro, if the nightlife within Greensboro is as good as it gets, that is pretty sad...

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

Well, the MSA definition is what's truly misleading. The Triad is a metro that for some reason is broken into 3 separate "metros" thar all interconnected. Only us city nerds on this site consider the Greensboro "metro" only 750k. You used to live in Carolina, as did I, you know that. The Greensboro metro in the real world is referred to as as the entire Triad which includes Burlington and Winston. In real life...

As such, for a ~1.6 million person metro, if the nightlife within Greensboro is as good as it gets, that is pretty sad...

Actually I think Greensboro and Winston-Salem having their own MSAs does a better job of reflecting the reality on the ground (Burlington is pretty small on its own so I'm leaving it out of the discussion). Greensboro and Winston-Salem are clearly their own cities with their own identities and spheres of influence; those spheres overlap for sure but not substantially so. This is why Greensboro, Winston-Salem, and High Point all have separate urbanized areas. I think you're thinking of the Triad in the same way as the Triangle, but the dynamic is different--primarily because the Triad lacks a huge, central employment center like RTP and that makes a big difference. Even then, as a city, Raleigh doesn't quite measure up to the sole principal cities of 2 million+ metros (e.g., Charlotte).

Even so, both Greensboro and Winston-Salem are around the same size and neither gives you the feel of being in a 1.6 million "metro" in any respect so to judge either city on that basis just isn't fair. It's not like Charlotte or Nashville which are THE principal cities of their metro areas and give you the feel of being in a large metro area all by themselves.

[murksiderock]

Dallas and Fort Worth are four miles farther apart, downtown to downtown, and neither city is representative of a principal 7.1 million plus city. Further, both are representative of there own spheres of influence. Fort Worth, if it was a metro area defined by its already existing Metro Division, is the center of ~2.331 "metro" area. Dallas would still be twice the size at ~4.772 million...

Obviously, the size differential between Greensboro and Winston is smaller, but they function in much the same way, if not all. Winston has always been the secondary city, and remains so today, for a multi-nodal region that is very interconnected. If anything, they are becoming more connected as the region grows. Logistically, they are connected through infrastructure like DFW. Economies of the principal cities are different in arena but entertwined in impact. Events (athletic, convention or otherwise) in the Triad appeal to residents from either city, and to residents of all surrounding suburbs. Having separate identities doesn't mean they should be separate metro areas...

For all practical intents and purposes, the Triad is one metropolitan area. Greensboro, while not a principal city in the traditional sense, is the "main" city (for lack of a better word) of that region, today and historically...

[gold15]

- Born in GSO - graduated from Page and A&T.
- Have lived in CLT and ATL.
- Been to cities all over the country and the world.
- Spent this past weekend in GSO.

In my opinion, and that of a lot of 'locals', Greensboro can be seen as anti-everything associated with thriving cities and growth. I love my hometown, but I would never call it progressive. I'm not sure we've had a pro-business mayor in recent history.

I think I took in the entire city this past weekend. Judging from what I've seen of other cities (and considering city/metro size as a variable), Greensboro appears to have had about 3 years worth of visually noticeable 'growth/change/development/progression' in the 16 years I've been gone. It's a NIMBY paradise.

A&T's campus is AMAZING though.