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Non-white population growth (metro, 2010-2019):
Seattle: 38.25%
Denver: 23.71%
White population growth (metro, 2010-2019):
Seattle: 4.63%
Denver: 11.82%
Foreign-born Mexican population (metro, 2010-2019):
Seattle: +3,757
Denver: -15,607
The only stats I see that are really close are age, educational attainment (BA for those over 25 years of age is around 44-45% for both metros, and poverty which is 7.8% for Seattle 7.9% for Denver).
I said a lot of similarities. They also have a lot of differences. A couple of your stats are off though - Seattle already had a murder rate of 5.4 this year and that was at the beginning of October. Denver’s is a bit higher but big picture not that different and violent crime rates overall are quite similar. Safety overall feels pretty damn similar.
More importantly - Seattle is denser and more urban but the built environments have a lot of similarities. Culturally there are a lot of similarities too. These were the first two major cities in the US to legalize marijuana. Both have a similar share of hipsters and bros. Remarkably similar nightlife scenes. Similar housing stock/mix and a similar mix of the types of businesses. Obviously Seattle has a strong maritime culture and Denver doesn’t. There are plenty of other differences, weather being the most prominent. But in general the vibes of the downtowns and neighborhoods and the type of people you run into in both cities are more similar than you’d think given their distance from each other. Both also have their share of moderate and even conservative suburbs and rural areas in their metro areas.
I said a lot of similarities. They also have a lot of differences. A couple of your stats are off though - Seattle already had a murder rate of 5.4 this year and that was at the beginning of October.
My stats aren't off, they're the latest annual stats for 2019. It wouldn't make sense to be using stats for 2020 when the year's not over
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_Adultman
Culturally there are a lot of similarities too. These were the first two major cities in the US to legalize marijuana. Both have a similar share of hipsters and bros. Remarkably similar nightlife scenes. Similar housing stock/mix and a similar mix of the types of businesses. Obviously Seattle has a strong maritime culture and Denver doesn’t. There are plenty of other differences, weather being the most prominent. But in general the vibes of the downtowns and neighborhoods and the type of people you run into in both cities are more similar than you’d think given their distance from each other. Both also have their share of moderate and even conservative suburbs and rural areas in their metro areas.
You're right that there are similarities, most of which stem from the time that each city's population boomed which has made them millenial and Gen Z magnets. Marijuana legalization and other progressive causes are something they have in common.
I would disagree that the types of people you run into in both cities being similar, though. We can see from the numbers that Denver and Seattle residents are starkly different and that difference is growing.
Denver and Seattle seem like long lost twins to me. Almlst all of the same values exist in both. Nashville and Austin feel too small.
I've spent plenty of time in each city as I have family in both. I strongly disagree that the two are long lost twins. They're not really similar at all.
The similarities seem to be that they're two newish Western US cities with outdoorsy populations and a lot of bungalows.
Part of it is a subjective thing, I guess. Walking around Highland, Uptown or South Broadway in Denver I get a relatively similar vibe as I would in, say, Ballard or Capitol Hill in Seattle. Again, the mix of housing stock, types of businesses, general attitudes people have - there are similarities. The sizes of the cities are similar and the downtowns have a lot in common as well. Both have outdoorsy people, strong microbrew culture and are very accepting of marijuana. Both have strong counter-culture scenes while also having a bit of a corporate, bro-ey thing going on. Both are relatively isolated cities with beloved NFL teams.
I get it - there are a laundry list of obvious differences and long lost twins is definitely a major stretch, but the overlapping part of the Venn diagram is bigger than you might expect given how different the cities seem at a superficial level and how far they are from each other.
Last edited by Vincent_Adultman; 10-25-2020 at 01:32 PM..
Part of it is a subjective thing, I guess. Walking around Highland, Uptown or South Broadway in Denver I get a relatively similar vibe as I would in, say, Ballard or Capitol Hill in Seattle. Again, the mix of housing stock, types of businesses, general attitudes people have - there are similarities. The sizes of the cities are similar and the downtowns have a lot in common as well. Both have outdoorsy people, strong microbrew culture and are very accepting of marijuana. Both have strong counter-culture scenes while also having a bit of a corporate, bro-ey thing going on. Both are relatively isolated cities with beloved NFL teams.
What exactly do the downtown areas have in common? Seattle's downtown is next to Elliot Bay, is much more vibrant, has far better architecture, and is much larger in terms of workforce, residents, and retail offerings. Also, cities like Seattle, Minneapolis, Chicago, San Fran, NYC and few others have a strong counter-culture scene. Denver though.
The rest of what you mentioned - neighborhoods with similar vibes, people who are outdoorsy, into microbreweries and are accepting of marijuana - can be said of every major US city.
Non-white population growth (metro, 2010-2019):
Seattle: 38.25%
Denver: 23.71%
White population growth (metro, 2010-2019):
Seattle: 4.63%
Denver: 11.82%
Foreign-born Mexican population (metro, 2010-2019):
Seattle: +3,757
Denver: -15,607
The only stats I see that are really close are age, educational attainment (BA for those over 25 years of age is around 44-45% for both metros, and poverty which is 7.8% for Seattle 7.9% for Denver).
None of that disputes the fact that they have tons of similarities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimumingyu
My stats aren't off, they're the latest annual stats for 2019. It wouldn't make sense to be using stats for 2020 when the year's not over
You're right that there are similarities, most of which stem from the time that each city's population boomed which has made them millenial and Gen Z magnets. Marijuana legalization and other progressive causes are something they have in common.
I would disagree that the types of people you run into in both cities being similar, though. We can see from the numbers that Denver and Seattle residents are starkly different and that difference is growing.
Seattle residents are absolutely not starkly different than Denver residents. Can you explain was is so drastically different?
Quote:
Originally Posted by YIMBY
I've spent plenty of time in each city as I have family in both. I strongly disagree that the two are long lost twins. They're not really similar at all.
I've been to Seattle and live in Denver. I disagree. Denver reminds me os Seattle in alot of ways. More so than any other city I've been to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YIMBY
The rest of what you mentioned - neighborhoods with similar vibes, people who are outdoorsy, into microbreweries and are accepting of marijuana - can be said of every major US city.
Not many major cities in the US have dispensaries and have had them long enough to build a robust industry. Not many major cities are quite into microbrews as much as Denver and Seattle. Outdoorsy people move to places like Denver and Seattle for those reasons, those people don't just move to random major cities because most cities can't compare to the outdoor activities that these metros provide.
Next thing Atlanta and Dallas are nothing alike because Atlanta starts with a vowel and Dallas starts with a consonant.
"Not the same brand at all", interesting. What is Denver's brand, I'm curious, in your opinion.
I recently spend some more time in Denver recently and I've warmed-up to more, but there is still a "strange vibe" that I think it applies to all of Colorado.
It's not really my opinion, but Denver's "brand" is bases around outdoor living/recreation, Old Western culture, craft beer and being the home base/access point for one of the largest skiing industries in the World. And as unappealing as I personally find it, the marijuana industry in the US has kinda become synonymous with Denver in the last few years. I shouldn't say they're completely different as Seattle offers a lot of the same, but their culture is more centered around the outdoors, tech, and it's large/important brands (Starbucks, Costco, Amazon, etc). And back in the 90s more culturally relevant in the music world (Like Nashville/Austin) than Denver is today. This kinda reminds me of that thread asking "Why Houston isn't as big in pop culture as Atlanta or Miami." The answer is simply because Houston doesn't brand itself that ways and doesn't try. Same with Denver. There may be some similarities but Denver isn't a city that strives to be like a Seattle.
What strange vibe did you pick up on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimumingyu
White (metro)
Seattle: 66%
Denver: 80.7%
Hispanic (metro):
Seattle: 10.4%
Denver: 23.3%
Non-white population growth (metro, 2010-2019):
Seattle: 38.25%
Denver: 23.71%
White population growth (metro, 2010-2019):
Seattle: 4.63%
Denver: 11.82%
The only stats I see that are really close are age, educational attainment (BA for those over 25 years of age is around 44-45% for both metros, and poverty which is 7.8% for Seattle 7.9% for Denver).
Don't mean to nitpick but these are a bit misleading as Hispanics have no choice but mark themselves as "White," even when the majority in the US are mixed race. Seattle is definitely the more diverse metro overall, but it's not less non-Hispanic White.
Non-Hispanic White (Metro, 2019):
Seattle: 64%
Denver: 64%
One thing Seattle has over Denver is water. I think Seattle has the most extensive and high volume ferry system in the country.
Took the public ferry to get brunch with the kids today. It was nice and a great form of public transit in the era of Covid. It was hopping with families. (Own work Oct 24 2020)
"But so what?" I think the other poster was using transit ridership as one example of how Denver is not quite as similar to Seattle as some people on here think.
That is just an awesome skyline.
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