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That's highly cultural. In much of the urban midwest and west front porch and front yard culture is the de facto setting for 90% of neighborhood socialization. Backyards are mostly high-fenced areas for dogs, cars, sunbathing teenage girls, gardens and all the accumulated detritus of a life you don't have garage space for. Front yards are where people drink, sit out, read, light chimineas, where kids play and run, etc. I have lived in 4 different urban and streetcar suburban neighborhoods in KC, plus similar built environment neighborhoods in Eugene, OR and Lawrence, KS and cannot remember but maybe 10 total evenings/social events staged in a backyard. Even the "backyard BBQ" is more often then not cooked in the back and served somewhere else.
I cannot imagine having my kids play in the front yard. I'd be worried about them running into the street. Of course, my "front yard" is on a 45 degree angle, and my house is situated around five feet up from the street level, so it's a moot point personally.
We do hang out on our front porch, which is a good size and has a porch swing. But spending time in the "yard" itself, except to garden, seems way too exposed to me personally.
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Originally Posted by polo_golf_guy
Pittsburgh does not have better weather than Minneapolis. The Winter there runs about 10° degrees warmer... Hardly better by any means. I was surprised at how similar the climates are in these 2 cities.
In my experience, there's a big difference in terms of your experience of winter once it gets below around 20 degrees. When it's moderately cold, I can go outside with a jacket and feel fine essentially indefinitely. Once it's in the teens, you're in the "face burning" weather, where any exposed skin outside starts feeling painful pretty quickly. I say this from experience - where I grew up in Connecticut the climate wasn't too different from Pittsburgh, but when I was in college in Western Massachusetts It was significantly cooler, to the point that I tried to avoid going outside much in January and February.
Regardless, on the weather chart, it does show that Pittsburgh's winters are warmer, and (more surprisingly to me) the summers are about the same. The chart shows that at the winter peak, Pittsburgh is "frigid" only 16% of the time, versus 47% of the time in Minneapolis. You can argue this isn't a big difference I suppose, but you can't argue this is no difference at all.
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Originally Posted by polo_golf_guy
How so? Minneapolis has a more appealing and dense CBD.
Care to point me to some relevant google street views? When I look around the Minneapolis Street views, I mostly see modern highrises taking up whole blocks, with really underdeveloped land with lots of parking lots surrounding the CBD. Higrises of course have height, but from a pedestrian perspective they're kinda boring - no variance in the street wall, and not a lot of pedestrian activity. A lot of the older ones are set back too much from the sidewalk as well. What portions of Downtown look more like this - with lots of historic mid-rises along narrow streets?
Quote:
Originally Posted by polo_golf_guy
Further, Pittsburgh is not on the same level as Minneapolis-St. Paul. Our urban core has a population of about 700k with a metro of 3.5M compared to 2.3 for Pittsburgh who is losing net population. In the past Pittsburgh may have had more importance but that is no longer the case.
MSP is in a class with cities like Seattle, Denver, and Portland.
I'm not here to trash on Minneapolis versus Pittsburgh, because I don't know the city well enough to compare. I will say that Pittsburgh is pretty clearly right now the best city in the "Rust Belt" - a group of cities that Minneapolis has always been excluded from. I'm sure it's a fine city, but personally speaking, I've been happy living in Pittsburgh as a transplant from New England, and I wouldn't want to trade that for Minneapolis.
Regardless, talking about the size of an MSA, or a core city, means nothing in terms of overall urbanity. Phoenix has a significantly larger metropolitan area than Minneapolis, for example, but no one would consider Phoenix a more urban city.
Average 10 degree difference is pretty significant. Even if you disagree, how on earth can you give the edge on weather to MPLS? "We are only 10 degrees colder so we have better weather"?? Bizarre logic.
You're correct, a ten degree difference in average temperature, especially when it involves going above or below freezing, makes a very big difference. It allows the citizens of one city to have consistent and/or quality access to winter activities such as alpine skiing, nordic skiing, ice skating, sledding, while not allowing the other city consistent and/or quality access.
I would much rather have weather that allows me to consistently go outside and enjoy the season, rather than weather that is too warm for consistent and quality snow cover to enjoy the outdoors.
You're correct, a ten degree difference in average temperature, especially when it involves going above or below freezing, makes a very big difference. It allows the citizens of one city to have consistent and/or quality access to winter activities such as alpine skiing, nordic skiing, ice skating, sledding, while not allowing the other city consistent and/or quality access.
I would much rather have weather that allows me to consistently go outside and enjoy the season, rather than weather that is too warm for consistent and quality snow cover to enjoy the outdoors.
Well sure, if you consider brutally cold and long winters to be a plus then you'll love MPLS' weather. But that's not most people and that's not the poster I was responding to. He conceded that MPLS' winter "sucks" yet still gave the edge on weather to MPLS. Why? Well apparently because it's not that much colder and because "the rest of the year makes up for it" (as if Pittsburgh's summers are awful). That's what I found bizarre.
Oh and if you think that Pittsburgh's winter is not cold enough for "consistent access to winter activities" you must be joking. We are not talking about Atlanta here. Pittsburgh is a NE city right by the snowbelt! It's just not as bone-chillingly cold as MPLS.
Give me the Steel City. It actually is pretty charming in this day and age. I also like riding that thing up the side of the hill and looking at the city.
nightlife - Don't care.
culture - I think Pittsburgh would be more to my liking.
shopping - Don't care.
dining - Don't care.
scenery - Pittsburgh.
outdoor activities - Pittsburgh
crime rate - Not sure which is worse. I would assume they're about the same in this respect.
economy - Minneapolis probably wins here.
people - Minneapolis, though it's close.
weather - Minneapolis
quality of life - Don't know.
Oh and if you think that Pittsburgh's winter is not cold enough for "consistent access to winter activities" you must be joking. We are not talking about Atlanta here. Pittsburgh is a NE city right by the snowbelt! It's just not as bone-chillingly cold as MPLS.
To be fair, Pittsburgh is at that weird climactic zone where the winters are generally cold, but not cold enough to get a constant blanket of snow. Basically it repeatedly snows 1-6 inches, and then it melts, with periodic warm days above freezing where there is cold rain instead.
That said, given Pittsburgh's in an area with rugged topography, all you need to do is head around an hour east of here, into Somerset County, for skiing. It's generally cold enough there due to the higher elevation to "stick" for much longer. Or you can travel north to Erie if you really want to trudge through two feet of snow I suppose.
Well sure, if you consider brutally cold and long winters to be a plus then you'll love MPLS' weather. But that's not most people and that's not the poster I was responding to. He conceded that MPLS' winter "sucks" yet still gave the edge on weather to MPLS. Why? Well apparently because it's not that much colder and because "the rest of the year makes up for it" (as if Pittsburgh's summers are awful). That's what I found bizarre.
Oh and if you think that Pittsburgh's winter is not cold enough for "consistent access to winter activities" you must be joking. We are not talking about Atlanta here. Pittsburgh is a NE city right by the snowbelt! It's just not as bone-chillingly cold as MPLS.
You are missing the point. Pittsburgh does not have great winters. I would say they suck too. I actually like Minneapolis better for winter since at least there is a lot of sunshine on most days.
I moved here from Denver which runs with an average of 43° in January with strong sun. It isn't uncommon to have 60° days during that month as well. Now compared to that both winters suck to me. However, Minneapolis residents embrace the winter and you can do fun activities. Snow tubing, cross country skiing, and ice skating are all popular here in the winter. Me, I like to vacation and go to warmer places like California and Georgia.
You are missing the point. Pittsburgh does not have great winters. I would say they suck too. I actually like Minneapolis better for winter since at least there is a lot of sunshine on most days.
I moved here from Denver which runs with an average of 43° in January with strong sun. It isn't uncommon to have 60° days during that month as well. Now compared to that both winters suck to me. However, Minneapolis residents embrace the winter and you can do fun activities. Snow tubing, cross country skiing, and ice skating are all popular here in the winter. Me, I like to vacation and go to warmer places like California and Georgia.
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