Most cohesive tri-state area (NY/NJ/CT) (PA/NJ/DE) (DC/MD/VA) (Boston, NYC)
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It's comparatively difficult no matter where you are in NYC. 80-90% of the people living in Manhattan don't have access to a car anyway and aren't leaving the city all that often. The GWB has a better flow traffic flow than the tunnels, but that's still not comparable to crossing into VA from DC or crossing the line from Bethesda into Friendship Heights.
The George Washington and Verrazano–Narrows bridges in NYC are analogous (roughly) to the American Legion and Woodrow Wilson bridges in DC.
However, the traffic is a usually a lot more brutal if you try to traverse lower or midtown Manhattan when going from Brooklyn or Queens to NJ. Manhattan is the killer.
BigCityDreamer was talking about driving. Neither NJT nor PATH involve driving.
The only way to New Jersey (driving, that is) is through mad traffic on the BQE (I should know, right?) and over the Verrazano and then the Goethals or through one of those tunnels or over the GWB. That's it. There are no "secret" routes.
In DC, on the other hand, a lot of people don't know about the Chain Bridge, and I would frequently use it to get into and out of DC.
Westbound traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge is closed on weekends. That's a fact. There have been lane closures going on 2 years now.
It can take upwards of 45 mins to get to the Holland Tunnel coming from one side of Manhattan to the other. It's no cake walk. New York is the only city I've lived in where there are traffic cops directing traffic on any regular Saturday morning. Plowing down Canal on a Saturday afternoon is not for the faint of heart. And before someone says, "Yeah, there's traffic on M Street or South Street too," no, they are not even remotely close to being the same thing. I am talking about mad cars and pedestrians holding up traffic at every intersection.
So you have to deal with that plus tons of cars funneling into a two-lane tunnel. I can't think of any other city that has these types of constant chokepoints. It's not being overlydramatic, it's just the truth. Getting into and out NYC is not like getting into and out of Philly.
I also think that you are making too big a deal of the tunnel commutes. I take them frequently, and have been my entire life. Half the time, you just drive right through with no holdup at all. Of course, if you are traveling at peak times, you are going to have problems. Off peak, not so much. And if you know the different access points in Manhattan, you can drive around until you find one that isn't bad. Often, one access point will be backed up, and another will have no traffic. Like most places, an infrequent traveller will have to deal with more traffic than someone who knows the area well.
I went to undergrad in DC. I will give you the point that travel to VA is pretty easy by comparison. Maryland, not so much. Talk about traffic!
I can only speak for where I live. I can barely speak for the Philly area and I'm from NJ.
IMO, as I stated on the first page, the tri-state wins because of the PANYNJ. No, this does not include CT, but the closeness of NY and NJ is seconded by no other two states, not nearly at the same level.
Both states control the whole WTC, for pete's sake. It is literally both of ours.
PA? That's really an entirely different universe.
I personally don't see how NY/NJ can be closer than DC/MD considering that DC is technically in Maryland. The boundary between the two is literally a street. I also don't see them being more "cohesive" than Maryland and Virginia.
The NJ suburbs seem to be more or less their own thing with their own identity. In Newark's case, it has its own downtown and its own newspaper. The DC suburbs, on the other hand, are mostly a product of the District. Sure, Alexandria existed prior to DC, but it was never a large city, and doesn't have the same type of identity Newark does.
That's why people who aren't from DC proper often claim the city. If you're not from New York, you don't claim New York, period. Maybe people from Westchester or Long Island do, I'm not sure. But someone from Long Island saying "New York" may just be saying they're from the state, not the city (though people won't make that distinction). I don't think anybody from North Jersey would ever claim "New York" even if they were all the way on the West Coast.
So in that sense, I don't think the region is as cohesive.
I also think that you are making too big a deal of the tunnel commutes. I take them frequently, and have been my entire life. Half the time, you just drive right through with no holdup at all. Of course, if you are traveling at peak times, you are going to have problems. Off peak, not so much. And if you know the different access points in Manhattan, you can drive around until you find one that isn't bad. Often, one access point will be backed up, and another will have no traffic. Like most places, an infrequent traveller will have to deal with more traffic than someone who knows the area well.
I went to undergrad in DC. I will give you the point that travel to VA is pretty easy by comparison. Maryland, not so much. Talk about traffic!
If "drive right through" you mean roll through after waiting for all of the people without EZ passes to get in the cash line, then sure, you "roll right through." It is generally easier to get out of NYC than to get in since the tolls are on the NJ side. Getting through the Lincoln and Holland Tunnels can be a headache. Anyone who's come out of the Lincoln Tunnel and swung around that ramp should be all too familiar with this sight.
I personally don't see how NY/NJ can be closer than DC/MD considering that DC is technically in Maryland. The boundary between the two is literally a street. I also don't see them being more "cohesive" than Maryland and Virginia.
The NJ suburbs seem to be more or less their own thing with their own identity. In Newark's case, it has its own downtown and its own newspaper. The DC suburbs, on the other hand, are mostly a product of the District. Sure, Alexandria existed prior to DC, but it was never a large city, and doesn't have the same type of identity Newark does.
That's why people who aren't from DC proper often claim the city. If you're not from New York, you don't claim New York, period. Maybe people from Westchester or Long Island do, I'm not sure. But someone from Long Island saying "New York" may just be saying they're from the state, not the city (though people won't make that distinction). I don't think anybody from North Jersey would ever claim "New York" even if they were all the way on the West Coast.
So in that sense, I don't think the region is as cohesive.
PANYNJ as in Port Authority of NY and NJ, not as in Pennsylvania.
A New Jerseyan wouldn't say they're from New York (City) because they're not. It's an entirely different state. That's why it sucks having a major city right on a state border line, because though people in NJ live closer to and are more connected to NYC that most of NY state outside the region, we can't actually claim it without sounding dumb because it's not our state. That's not our fault. It's just how it is. Also, probably more importantly, the name of the state and the city are both New York, so when you say you're from New York, even meaning the city, it doesn't exactly sound accurate. If NYC were named New Amsterdam, I would definitely say I'm from New Amsterdam, to reflect the metro, when overseas or something as a point of reference. But NY is both a city and a state which complicates things.
If "drive right through" you mean roll through after waiting for all of the people without EZ passes to get in the cash line, then sure, you "roll right through." It is generally easier to get out of NYC than to get in since the tolls are on the NJ side. Getting through the Lincoln and Holland Tunnels can be a headache. Anyone who's come out of the Lincoln Tunnel and swung around that ramp should be all too familiar with this sight.
And "peak hours" are pretty much all reasonable hours on the weekend. That's from 11am to 9pm on the weekends.
That is just not true. Weekends aren't usually bad in general. Starting around 5PM on Saturday night it starts to build up, but daytime is fine. You know, when there is a "mile of traffic" to the Lincoln, that you can cut through Hoboken, which lets you out right at the tolls, right? Or you can take the Holland instead.
NNJ, NYC, and SW CT are such large areas that they almost don't seem "cohesive" the way that crossing the Potomac puts you in 2 states and/or DC. When I'm in NoVA or MD, wherever, I feel like I'm pretty much next to DC. DC suburbs. When I'm passing through NNJ or I'm in parts of CT, I do kind of feel worlds apart from NYC/Manhattan because it's such intense urbanity all the way through that it's hard for the mind to maintain relativity/orientation.
Is the Tri-State (NY/NJ/CT) more cohesive in a built up way? YES!!! But is it so large and intense to me that it's hard to imagine that it all revolves around one tiny island called Manhattan? YES
Whereas DC is much lower intensity, but you always feel like you're in "Metro DC" whether you're in VA or MD. It's akin to being in Houston or Atlanta suburbs. It's all just DC. NNJ, my God, NNJ by itself is the population of Metro DC and it's more intensely built up. By itself it would be one of the largest, most powerful, and densest metros in the country, but it's all just a suburb to a city that by itself is larger than nearly every state of the union, and then you have NY suburbs stretching east and north, and then CT! Along with LA, it's one of only 2 areas in the country that feel too large to be thought of as a singular city.
Philly's tri-state-"nes" is just not in the same arena. Memphis is also pretty tri-state-"ey" from what I understand. Perhaps Providence, too.
That is just not true. Weekends aren't usually bad in general. Starting around 5PM on Saturday night it starts to build up, but daytime is fine. You know, when there is a "mile of traffic" to the Lincoln, that you can cut through Hoboken, which lets you out right at the tolls, right? Or you can take the Holland instead.
"Peak" hours start at 11am on the weekend for a reason.
But we could always start a thread about it in the NY or NJ forums to see what everyone's experiences have been like.
I personally don't see how NY/NJ can be closer than DC/MD considering that DC is technically in Maryland. The boundary between the two is literally a street. I also don't see them being more "cohesive" than Maryland and Virginia.
The NJ suburbs seem to be more or less their own thing with their own identity. In Newark's case, it has its own downtown and its own newspaper. The DC suburbs, on the other hand, are mostly a product of the District. Sure, Alexandria existed prior to DC, but it was never a large city, and doesn't have the same type of identity Newark does.
I have to agree with that. DC's suburbs in VA and MD are just that--suburbs in pretty much every sense of the term, so they feel just like extensions of DC. Northern NJ though has a much stronger local identity and sense of place apart from NYC.
I do kind of feel worlds apart from NYC/Manhattan because it's such intense urbanity all the way through that it's hard for the mind to maintain relativity/orientation.
...Along with LA, it's one of only 2 areas in the country that feel too large to be thought of as a singular city.
This is just subjective opinion though, because you didn't grow up in a large city like that. I remember when I first went to Philadelphia as a kid I expected it to be a city roughly comparable in size to New York (Philly is, afterall, in the top10 largest cities in the US I learned that in school!). I was actually shocked how small it was, I literally thought I was in some town in Philly suburbs....lol. As a kid I also thought most people who live in cities use subways as their primary day to day means of travel... Even now as an adult when I travel to other US cities they feel very small to me.
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It is literally both of ours.
