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You're projecting two conclusions that you can't necessarily draw from midwest1's observations concerning CIN-DAY nor from other forum members you mentioned. As he pointed out here and I have elsewhere, without obsessing, this particular I-75 corridor is an expanding reality giving Cincinnati and Dayton a distinct economic lift over numerous other Midwestern cities. Although there are disadvantages to such growth, they're far outweighed by its advantages.
Obviously, even a CIN-DAY CSA designation wouldn't come anywhere close to Baltimore's CSA, except for just one thing: technically speaking, Baltimore, itself, doesn't have a CSA that does not include Washington DC and Arlington, VA.* This tie-in is the strongest advantage Baltimore possesses over other cities here; otherwise several of these cities, especially Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, surpass it in significant categories.
Washington-Baltimore-Arlington, DC-MD-VA-WV-PA Combined Statistical Area 9,665,892 9,051,961 +6.78% Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV Metropolitan Statistical Area
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarstl
How about you answer what I posted, is the entire Boswash corridor just NYC then??? Just becaus there's stuff in between? How far away from a city do you have to get for it to not be a part of the city? "Cin-Day" ( ) isn't even recognized yet, but even if it was, it's not a stand-in for Cincy. Just like the Boswash corridor numbers don't magically count for NYC's numbers, 1/3 of Ohio doesn't equal Cincy (it just makes this look sad). OTR is awesome Cincy, Dayton is Dayton.
There's nothing in your post (^) that compels me to respond, especially since it makes no sense.
""Originally Posted by midwest1 View Post
Stlgasm,
Something you may fail to realize is that the area between Cincinnati and Dayton has two small legacy industrial river cities, Hamilton and Middletown, both of which are showing signs of urban revival, breweries, artisan distillers, art galleries, wine/coffee bars, yoga studios, all in a legacy urban environment.
There are other towns along the way, Mason, Franklin, Trenton, Miamisburg that have small historic cores that add to the character of the I-75 corridor.
And heck, even Liberty Center and Austin Landing are incorporating residential/apartments into the mix, it's not all a strip mall.
... and what does this mean to you in the context of this thread? It's not important...""
You may think it's unimportant, but the I-75 corridor is one more feather in Cincinnati's cap. This thread is ostensibly about the respective metro areas and even without the coming merge of Cin-Day, the majority of the corridor is already within Cincy's MSA (Butler/Warren) counties.
It is the fastest growing region of metro Cincinnati and a large reason it is outperforming stagnant metros such as St. Louis.
And it's also why any day now, the Cincinnati-Dayton metroplex will leapfrog over St. Louis and become a top 20 metro with accelerating growth and attractiveness.
Mark my words. And as I highlighted, it isn't just sprawl, Middletown and Hamilton would be about the largest suburbs of St. Louis, and they are legacy urban cities. Metro Cincy has a lot if urban corners outside of OTR.
The Cleveland Orchestra tours Europe annually (unless an Asian tour is scheduled), typically to the most prestigious concert halls in Europe. The Cincinnati Symphony's European tour in 2017 was its first in almost a decade.
<< As part of its first European tour since 2008, the orchestra will perform 11 concerts in eight cities in six countries.>>
Unlike the Cincinnati Symphony, the Cleveland Orchestra possesses arguably the nation's best summer classical music venue in Blossom Music Center, celebrating its 50th anniversary this summer with the likes of Yo Yo Ma and Broadway star Audra McDonald among celebrated guest performers. Blossom is located in the midst of the Cuyahoga Valley National Park.
So did I, but you chose to ignore them because they didn't fit your narrative. Next, your comparison of sunbelt cities-vs-NYC, London and Paris simply doesn't work as an analogy of Cincinnati-vs-St.Louis, wherein population differences are so less extreme. By ignoring facts I presented in order to fit your own narrative, you present the same problem. You've also garbled what I've said to fit this narrative, such as your twisted comment concerning Cincinnati's production of jet engines. It's obvious that you mean to minimize the sheer importance of GE Aviation being headquartered in Cincinnati and that the company's design, production and testing of commercial jet engines is centered in Cincinnati. The only "subjective" observation that I might add is that if GE (headquartered in Boston) ever breaks up as a company - a real possibility, considering its dire circumstances - its Aviation Division will most certainly remain headquartered in Cincinnati - thus giving the city a third F100 company.
At this time, my best suggestion to you and your St. Louis play pal is that you quit tripping over each other in such desperation to move the goal posts yourselves in order to construct two erroneous narratives.
No, I didn't ignore them, I directly called you out on them and why you were using them. As I said, "Seems to me like he used a lot solid facts that put St. Louis on top of Cincy (population, gdp, media market etc.) while you want to use various rates taken from a single moment in time." Cincy can grow faster than St. Louis (you can use that in a thread about which one is healthier if you want, but it doesn't belong here because it doesn't mean more important), St. Louis is bigger, by population, gdp, etc. That's why it's more important, no matter how much you want to pick snapshots in time with rates, or just pick certain industries or companies to stand-in for Cincy, when you add up everything St. Louis overall still comes out way ahead.
St. Louis - 2,807,002
Pittsburgh - 2,342,299
Cincinnati - 2,165,139
Cleveland - 2,056,405
Columbus - 2,041,520
How telling is it that you used this to rank Cincy above Cleveland, but intentionally left St. Louis off so you could ignore it and make the conversation about Cincy and Pittsburgh...
My analogy also works perfectly, the population difference illustrates the point to the extreme so it's easier to understand, and you still don't get it! Wow...
"It's obvious that you mean to minimize the sheer importance of GE Aviation being headquartered in Cincinnati..." Is it now? Or maybe some of us know that a company in Cincy being important isn't the same thing as Cincy being important. That's what I'm saying, whether it be jet engines or 1/3 of the state of Ohio, you guys keep trying to create a conversation around something as a stand-in for Cincy (strawmen), St. Louis doesn't have to do that because it wins overall. If you want we could; you don't think St. Louis's role as an agro-science center with companies like Monsanto headquartered there has affected/been important to the world? But again, you know why I didn't? Because who cares, we have the gdp numbers for both! St. Louis has a bigger economy, and you just want to keep ignoring this cold hard fact with strawmen and various objective nonsense.
There's nothing in your post (^) that compels me to respond, especially since it makes no sense.
Actually, it makes perfect sense. Here, try again:
"How about you answer what I posted, is the entire Boswash corridor just NYC then??? Just becaus there's stuff in between? How far away from a city do you have to get for it to not be a part of the city? "Cin-Day" ( ) isn't even recognized yet, but even if it was, it's not a stand-in for Cincy. Just like the Boswash corridor numbers don't magically count for NYC's numbers, 1/3 of Ohio doesn't equal Cincy (it just makes this look sad). OTR is awesome Cincy, Dayton is Dayton."
It addresses everything you say below, but just to add a little:
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest1
""Originally Posted by midwest1 View Post
Stlgasm,
Something you may fail to realize is that the area between Cincinnati and Dayton has two small legacy industrial river cities, Hamilton and Middletown, both of which are showing signs of urban revival, breweries, artisan distillers, art galleries, wine/coffee bars, yoga studios, all in a legacy urban environment.
There are other towns along the way, Mason, Franklin, Trenton, Miamisburg that have small historic cores that add to the character of the I-75 corridor.
And heck, even Liberty Center and Austin Landing are incorporating residential/apartments into the mix, it's not all a strip mall.
... and what does this mean to you in the context of this thread? It's not important...""
You may think it's unimportant, but the I-75 corridor is one more feather in Cincinnati's cap. This thread is ostensibly about the respective metro areas and even without the coming merge of Cin-Day, the majority of the corridor is already within Cincy's MSA (Butler/Warren) counties. Uh huh, and yet Cincy still can't beat St. Louis's numbers
It is the fastest growing region of metro Cincinnati and a large reason it is outperforming stagnant metros such as St. Louis. And again, too bad it's still way behind St. Louis's numbers... The thread isn't who is growing faster atm, it's which is more important
And it's also why any day now, the Cincinnati-Dayton metroplex will leapfrog over St. Louis and become a top 20 metro with accelerating growth and attractiveness. St. Louis doesn't need a future 1/3 the state of Ohio to beat Cincy, it already does now
Mark my words. And as I highlighted, it isn't just sprawl, Middletown and Hamilton would be about the largest suburbs of St. Louis, and they are legacy urban cities. Metro Cincy has a lot if urban corners outside of OTR.
I'm not making sense? We're talking about overall importance of these cities and you're celebrating a microbrewery and a starbucks opening way out between Cincy and Dayton...
Well they wouldn't come here just for that, but say they went to Niagara Falls or something, Cleveland is only 3 hours away so they might jump down there for something. I am not saying they'll fly all the way to Cleveland when Paris is closer but if they already are planning a trip to the US they might consider adding it to the itinerary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24
The average European, like the average American, doesn't really know boo about classical music or art. They like to think they do, but they really don't (there's a reason the arts are so heavily subsidized in Europe, as people left to their own devices simply don't attend!). So no, I don't think they would come to Cleveland to see the orchestra.
However, ones who actually do know the scene, absolutely would. It is a great stop for educated tourists looking to see top quality stuff and not drop thousands. You might be surprised if you ever go to Severance Hall some time.
Although I agree with you that the Rock Hall brings in way more tourists.
Interesting comparison list. My vote would be:
1a. STL
1b. Baltimore (only cause i think some DC overflow is causing their pop growth)
2. Pittsburgh
3. Cleveland
4. Cincinnati
My attempts at educatng you have obviously fallen on deaf ears, or technically, blind eyes.
Cin-Day is already bigger than St. Louis and accelerating in terms of growth.
If you need to believe it's just a Starbucks linking the emerging metroplex, go right ahead.
And with all due respect to St. Louis, C Cincinnati represents a much much more beautiful and fascinating destination, it's star is rising fast.
I just hope St. Louis can avoid joining Cleveland in the perpetually stagnant, shrinking column demographically, honestly I do. Maybe look at what Cincy has done to turn things around?!
You really should check out the area sometime Caesar, the scale of growth in the middle of CinDay is about as impressive as anywhere in the entire Midwest. And in case you are worried about sprawl, another $10,000,000 brewery was just announced for annold industrial shoe factory in the ever-lovely Lebanon Ohio, a destination that if it were in St. Louis would be regionally quite famous.
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) isn't even recognized yet, but even if it was, it's not a stand-in for Cincy. Just like the Boswash corridor numbers don't magically count for NYC's numbers, 1/3 of Ohio doesn't equal Cincy (it just makes this look sad). OTR is awesome Cincy, Dayton is Dayton.
There's nothing in your post (^) that compels me to respond, especially since it makes no sense.
