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Actually you brought up those crime isssues as SOON as someone made a point you could not counter
ActuallyIm NOT a Chicagoan and never have been.Crime and history are 2 separate things.I know you are just looking for a way out but it really shows how far you are willing to stick with something even when there is overwhelming evidence you are wrong.
Its been shown that Toronto has massive problems with corruption in its police department,Shoddy constructoion all acrooss Toronto with windows falling out,a massive uptick in gun crimes from last year but somehow THAT is not DECLINE because its LESS than Chicago's.
So hypocritical .
It seems you dont know what crime is. And you probably still dont know what decline is either after all these posts.
"Shoddy construction" yet tens of thousands of people move into these Toronto condos and other homes annually. Meanwhile Chicago is LOSING population. Its rapidly declining in Public School enrollment and so on. I dont know how you can compare the two.
Only adults revel in the horror that a segment of the population of a city (and country, and race) suffer from on a daily basis just so they can get "points" on their city data argument.
New York's "big apple" - city of opportunity identity - may be true 50 or 100 years ago when the city was rapidly growing and expanding, when it offered a small piece of the apple and a good quality life to every new comer willing to work for it. But most of us can agree that today's NYC is a city of extreme gentrification, class division, and one of the highest wealth gaps between the have and have-nots. I have worked for sometime in NYC's investment banking industry and I know from first hand experience how working 80-100 hours per week while earning a 6-figure salary could still mean sharing a flat with 3 roommates, expensive housing and healthcare, and at best a mediocre quality of life in the long run. I have many friends who are still in the same situation today going into their late 20s and mid-30s.
+1
Very powerful post! As a New Yorker, this part ^^^^ hit a little too close to home, lol. 80-100 hours a week is an insane amount of work, even for here! You better be making 6 figures if you're putting in that much work! Lol.
I feel like 6 figures is middle-class here. I'm just a early 20s, recent college grad, making nowhere near that (yet), but I feel like it could be possible to live comfortably off that. Definitely not in Manhattan, and probably not even Brooklyn, even the non-trendy areas, but The Bronx and parts of Queens would probably be doable.
That being said, I have known a few millionaires that still needed to have roommates here. But that's because they wanna live on Wall Street or in the Village, or some other crazy expensive areas. It's definitely not an easy city to live in, that's for sure. It is really fun and rewarding though. I just keep applying to the affordable housing lottery. My plan is to just try my luck with that, lol. I know someone that lucked out well with that with a nice place in UES for super cheap.
The rest of your post was really interesting too. I like your perspective on diversity, as a person from a Chinese city. I think diversity is probably something that people in all North American cities take for granted. I like the point that Toronto is able to attract all those immigrants and experience all that growth while remaining affordable and livable. NYC couldn't do that! It was affordable for a while, but it was a ****hole! And now that it has cleaned up a lot, it's one of the most expensive places to live in the whole world! But I think comparing Toronto to NYC is kind of an apples/oranges situation.
I think you also bring up a good point though with the civic personas. I think in large part it does have a lot to do with Hollywood + pop culture. I think Toronto does kind of fly under the radar for some reason, which is a big part of why I voted Chicago. I'm not really sure exactly why that is. It is Canadas biggest city. Maybe because Hollywood kind of ignores it? Maybe you guys are too chill and don't have enough newsworthy events? The only time I remember hearing about Toronto on the news was that crackhead mayor. I think the lack of attention makes things better as far as livability goes though, so I wouldn't count that as a bad thing. I will admit before I went to Toronto I had to do some research to figure out what I wanted to do, since I honestly did not know anything about it at all. I think Toronto is a bit lacking on the famous landmarks + tourism tbh. Actually, I think Chicago kind of is too, for a city of its size and history. Anyway my main reason for even going to Toronto was to party with a friend who had a friend that was DJing for some event. It was a weekend trip and it was fun.
You yourself mentioned earlier that not once did you actually live/stay in the city of Toronto. All 3 times you mentioned that you actually stayed in Brampton, Mississauga, and another suburban city outside of Toronto, none of which is an actual part of Toronto proper... It's like staying only in Jersey City a bunch of times and saying you know exactly how being a New Yorker is like. lmfao.
I'm not going to continue feeding into your one-dimension view of Toronto, because every time I mention an observation of the city that I live in day in day out, your response would be instant denial followed by a negative critique ("Multiculturalism is not an actual identity", "Toronto buildings are ugly"). I don't think I've ever mentioned one negative aspect of Chicago, or went out of my way to attack places I barely know. What does one have to gain from throwing misleading labels about places they hardly know? Really puzzling phenomenon. You definitely reserve the right to your opinion, and I reserve mine. I think we can leave it at that.
Apparently I'm not allowed to have an opinion.Since when is a "tourist" suposed to be highly knowledgeable as a resident?"A puzzling phenomenon?"Thats dumb.
What was so objectionable about what I said?
I said:
Lacking in showcasing its history and culture of Toronto.
Aesthetically ,its not a pretty city.
Those are observations.You dont like.So what?
BS.You from day one mentioned about greasy Chicago food which was totally irrelevant.So stop it with the "Higher road" argument because that aint you.
You read more into what was said than what was there.Staying in the suburbs was the choice because my best friend(the one in the video that was attacked)lives out there but works in his own PR firm in the city where we were throughout the day and evening until time to go to sleep.
I I stayed in the burbs most of the time at NIGHT as a place go to sleep .It was free as that is where SOME of mine and his friends also live.
Everyday I either took the train or road with my friend to work.
2weeks I was in Toronto this time JUST to see more of the city as I never was really that interested before.I drove from Montreal to do so.Overall,I did enjoy my visit as I always do.Anyone who can go to Toronto and have a bad time is having issues themselves.
However,everywhere I go enjoy myself depending on the people.
The first time I went to Toronto I stayed in downtown Toronto near off Bloor.
Also the people that I know are all Toronto born and raised.None of them are from Mississauga or those areas.Not once did I hang out in those areas.Every day and every time we were in the city.Dining,eating,sight seeing etc.
Why would I go to another city only to stay in the suburbs all the time?
Problem is you cant stand criticism from people outside of Toronto.So stop looking for reason people dont see what you see and just accept that.
Pictures of Toronto but dont know how to resize them to the right size so I can upload them.Once I figure it out I will do so.
Last edited by Othello Is Here; 11-18-2016 at 09:06 PM..
It seems you dont know what crime is. And you probably still dont know what decline is either after all these posts.
"Shoddy construction" yet tens of thousands of people move into these Toronto condos and other homes annually. Meanwhile Chicago is LOSING population. Its rapidly declining in Public School enrollment and so on. I dont know how you can compare the two.
Based on the word it means: a gradual and continuous loss of strength, numbers, quality, or value.So the word is used in both ways.Are you saying it can only used your way?
All of those people I see walking around Toronto with t-shirts and ball caps emblazoned with "T-dot", "416" "the 6ix" or other Toronto identifying streetwear don't seem to have any trouble nailing down their version of the local civic persona -- they seem pretty sure of where they live and pretty proud of it, too.
LOL.Ok..So no other city in America or Canada has their "Zip" code representing because they also are proud?Where did I elude that people were not proud of their city of Toronto?
So, they're ignorant of their city's history, then. I'm sure lots of Montrealers and Chicagoans are also ignorant of those city's history.
I travel all over the world and no you are wrong Many people may not know everything but they have a since what makes there city unigue because of its culture and food.
Several people have said this same thing.Including those who prefer Toronto but O gusss its because I did not GUSH all over about hpw great Toronto is,what I say gets you negativity.
Chicago has been often referred to as a cleaner, more laid back midwestern NYC. I've seen it mentioned in comparison to NYC countless times, many right here on city-data. Look around.
Chicago and NYC are traditional piers.Its not unusual at all as NYC is older and more established.Thank you for proving my point.
Its been shown that Toronto has massive problems with corruption in its police department,Shoddy constructoion all acrooss Toronto with windows falling out,a massive uptick in gun crimes from last year but somehow THAT is not DECLINE because its LESS than Chicago's.
So hypocritical .
No it's not hypocritical, this is the stupidest post I've ever read.
Toronto has built hundreds of buildings, because it's booming not declining. A small number have had glass falling, you can count them on one hand. Big woop. It's hilarious to cite this as an example of decline when it's a consequence of the opposite.
Toronto does not have "massive" police corruption problems. "Massive" is a hyperbole. Compared to Chicago and most of the US, Toronto's police is squeaky clean. Not problem free, but nothing is.
The uptick in crime was blamed on an unusually warm year, including a relatively mild winter. Still "uptick in crime" in Toronto terms is still docile compared to every other major city in North America. Crime in Toronto always goes up and down, but stays within a very low threshold. It is well under control.
Crime in Chicago is getting worse yes, but the fact that it's so bad is an example of the city's overall decline. If a city cannot get crime and violence and homicides under control, it's not a good sign of health. Chicago and Toronto are roughly the same size, Chicago has had 700 murders, Toronto has had 56. Chicago crime is out of control.
But the biggest most important example of the city's decline is demonstrated by this graph:
This is not a one year decline or a 5 year decline, this trend has gone on for 26 years, possibly even more.
Chicago has lost its ability to attract residents, and consequently it has slowly lost more of its influence in the USA over the last 26 years. The city is less influential than it was 26 years ago. This is decline.
I don't understand why this fact is so hard for you guys to accept, instead of continued denial and diversions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Othello Is Here
I said:
Lacking in showcasing its history and culture of Toronto.
Aesthetically ,its not a pretty city.
Those are observations.You dont like.So what?
What year did you visit?
"it's not a pretty city" is a blanket statement. Toronto is huge and diverse, it has pretty parts and ugly parts.
Last edited by Mr. Burns; 11-19-2016 at 12:59 AM..
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