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Which literally makes Charlotte a gateway to the Deep South since Charlotte literally borders SC--which you probably didn't know.
It will be amusing to see how you try and wiggle out of this one. I'm getting my popcorn ready.
It seems the complexities of modern geography are still bothering you so let's try it another way. I'll pose a question.
Do you consider Pittsburgh Pennsylvania to be the gateway to the South?
Consider these points as you answer, part of it's metro area literally sits on and over the border of West Virginia bringing it into the federally defined Southern United States. It's city proper is entirely in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the majority of it's metro is in Pennsylvania.The unique culture of Pittsburgh is most closely associated with the Northeast and Mid Atlantic regions respectively.
This is a tough question for you, if you answer yes you will obviously come off as ill informed and way off base. We all know Pittsburgh isn't the gateway to the South, but it is the gateway North. If you answer no you will be acknowledging the point that you have been fighting thus far, being on a border as a multi state metro does not make said metro the gateway to both or all regions. In modern academia there are other factors mainly sociology and geography that come into play which is why not many cities meet such critria.
What say you?
So this is clearly between Nashville and Charlotte. I picked Nashville just because it's more centrally located, and Charlotte is generally seen as the capital of the Carolina's.
This is a tough question for you, if you answer yes you will obviously come off as ill informed and way off base. We all know Pittsburgh isn't the gateway to the South, but it is the gateway North. If you answer no you will be acknowledging the point that you have been fighting thus far, being on a border as a multi state metro does not make said metro the gateway to both or all regions. In modern academia there are other factors mainly sociology and geography that come into play which is why not many cities meet such critria.
What say you?
I must say you have taken speciousness to a whole new level.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,538,032 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee48
This is a tough question for you, if you answer yes you will obviously come off as ill informed and way off base. We all know Pittsburgh isn't the gateway to the South, but it is the gateway North. If you answer no you will be acknowledging the point that you have been fighting thus far, being on a border as a multi state metro does not make said metro the gateway to both or all regions. In modern academia there are other factors mainly sociology and geography that come into play which is why not many cities meet such critria.
What say you?
I know you're trying to make a point but you may want to tone down the Fedora tippin' talk, m'lady.
Doesn't a gateway open to two directions?
Aside from that I'd argue that Pittsburgh isn't near enough to the cultural south to be a real stepping stone to either. Even in strict federally defined terms there's plenty of PA south of the Pitt. Cincinnati would be a better descriptor of a true gateway city. Cumberland, Maryland would be another candidate.
It seems the complexities of modern geography are still bothering you so let's try it another way. I'll pose a question.
Do you consider Pittsburgh Pennsylvania to be the gateway to the South?
Consider these points as you answer, part of it's metro area literally sits on and over the border of West Virginia bringing it into the federally defined Southern United States. It's city proper is entirely in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the majority of it's metro is in Pennsylvania.The unique culture of Pittsburgh is most closely associated with the Northeast and Mid Atlantic regions respectively.
If yes why?
If no why not?
I'm not surprised you'd resort to patronizing me as it is a classic defense mechanism. And this popcorn tastes better than I thought...good stuff.
And I honestly don't even know why you're going off on this tangent about gateways. This point was originally brought up by OT, but you're vehemently arguing the point as though you yourself initially brought it up--yet you claim you're not him. I'm guessing you're just having trouble keeping your screennames straight.
I know nothing about Pittsburgh from a firsthand perspective, but was educated, lived, and worked in the Charlotte area for 12 years and go back to visit often (I returned from a week-long visit there earlier this week) and know what I'm talking about, not only from a historical and geographical perspective, but from firsthand experience. You, on the other hand, know nothing about Charlotte.
I must say you have taken speciousness to a whole new level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon
I know you're trying to make a point but you may want to tone down the Fedora tippin' talk, m'lady.
Doesn't a gateway open to two directions?
Aside from that I'd argue that Pittsburgh isn't near enough to the cultural south to be a real stepping stone to either. Even in strict federally defined terms there's plenty of PA south of the Pitt. Cincinnati would be a better descriptor of a true gateway city. Cumberland, Maryland would be another candidate.
"Fedora tippin" I like that, not intending to be specious or wordy but when being asked to clarify the same point and break the same thing down I tend to find several ways to relay the data. Using several descriptions or examples and expanding vocabulary is one.
Not necessarily and the Pittsburgh example I chose clearly illustrates why being on a border doesn't necessarily make it a gateway to two directions. In some cases it does in some cases it doesn't.
Exactly! It seems that you have easily understood the point that seems to have eluded him and It seems most academics that have had a say in determining these boundaries came to these conclusions as they considered all the facts too. I consider Pittsburgh a gateway city to the North but not the south. To your point there is much of Southern Pennsylvania that is further south than WV and obviously Pennsylvania is not considered a Southern gateway despite that fact. I'd have considered Philadelphia as an example as well since it brings in Delaware a federally defined southern state (I have bones to pick with this but another time) to illustrate the same concept too but it seems it would have been too much nuance for him as well so I stuck to one. Your Cincinnati example is interesting I often look at Cincinnati and Louisville together. Both could claim to be gateways North and South generally speaking but that is not exactly the feeling you get in either and neither region seems to be embracing the both narrative. Cincinnati seems to be more of a gateway North for me and always feels like really leaving the south. The Kentucky side or the river is not urban at all compared to the Ohio side and feels Southern going and coming. The Ohio side feels like officially being "up north" as soon as you hit the bridge over the Ohio. Louisville is pretty much the opposite. Despite the Indiana side here being less urban crossing into Louisville from Ohio feels like having left the North. Both seem to be embracing their respective gateway statuses. As far smaller cities there are several that can be considered respective gateways.
Last edited by cherokee48; 05-12-2018 at 03:42 PM..
I'm not surprised you'd resort to patronizing me as it is a classic defense mechanism. And this popcorn tastes better than I thought...good stuff.
And I honestly don't even know why you're going off on this tangent about gateways. This point was originally brought up by OT, but you're vehemently arguing the point as though you yourself initially brought it up--yet you claim you're not him. I'm guessing you're just having trouble keeping your screennames straight.
I know nothing about Pittsburgh from a firsthand perspective, but was educated, lived, and worked in the Charlotte area for 12 years and go back to visit often (I returned from a week-long visit there earlier this week) and know what I'm talking about, not only from a historical and geographical perspective, but from firsthand experience. You, on the other hand, know nothing about Charlotte.
So there isn't an answer in that hay stack let's try again. In your opinion is Pittsburgh Pennsylvania a gateway to the South?
Not necessarily and the Pittsburgh example I chose clearly illustrates why being on a border doesn't necessarily make it a gateway to two directions. In some cases it does in some cases it doesn't.
The southernmost part of the city of Pittsburgh is a good 50 miles from the WV border and its MSA doesn't include any WV counties. Charlotte literally borders SC, its urbanized area spills into SC, it has SC suburbs that directly border it, and its MSA includes three SC counties. This is why Charlotte--which directly borders SC which is the Deep South--acts as a gateway to the Deep South but Pittsburgh is not a gateway to the South. Another reason will be given below.
Quote:
Exactly! It seems that you have easily understood the point that seems to have eluded him and It seems most academics that have had a say in determining these boundaries came to these conclusions as they considered all the facts too.
Nothing has eluded me, but it's not a good look that you feel the need to indirectly patronize me because you think you're right about everything.
Quote:
I consider Pittsburgh a gateway city to the North but not the south. To your point there is much of Southern Pennsylvania that is further south than WV and obviously Pennsylvania is not considered a Southern gateway despite that fact. I'd have considered Philadelphia as an example as well since it brings in Delaware a federally defined southern state (I have bones to pick with this but another time) to illustrate the same concept too but it seems it would have been too much nuance for him as well so I stuck to one.
Right...too much "nuance" for me, despite the fact that I used to live in the Philly metro area and can also speak from firsthand experience there. You should really stop while you're ahead.
Anyway, while WV as a whole is classified as a Southern state, the consensus among the public isn't so clear. As a matter of fact, it's more like Delaware in this regard--the state that you have "bones to pick with" regarding its Census-designated classification as a Southern state--where the northern portion that borders a Northern state is more Northern in orientation and culture than the southern portion. That is to say that, from what I've researched, the portions of WV that fall in the wider sphere of Pittsburgh's influence, which would include Morgantown, aren't considered culturally Southern and are more oriented towards the North (Pittsburgh). So no, Pittsburgh isn't a gateway to the South; however, I predict that you'll completely turn this argument on its head in an attempt to prove that this somehow also demonstrates that Charlotte isn't a gateway to the Deep South.
Quote:
The Kentucky side or the river is not urban at all compared to the Ohio side and feels Southern going and coming.
I can't speak for the rest of the NKY towns, but Covington is urban and feels like an extension of Cincinnati across the river.
Even Kentuckians themselves will tell you NKY is culturally different from the rest of the state.
I think this is probably the last response I'm giving to you in this thread. Your defense mechanisms are a huge turn off, not to mention the fact that your arguments are so riddled with inconsistencies and fallacies that it's entirely too taxing to continue with the discussion. And again, I note that you are stridently arguing the points that were initially brought up by OT for some strange reason. It's weird that nobody is stressing this whole "gateway" thing but you two.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,538,032 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee48
"Fedora tippin" I like that, not intending to be specious or wordy but when being asked to clarify the same point and break the same thing down I tend to find several ways to relay the data. Using several descriptions or examples and expanding vocabulary is one.
Yeah sometimes I fall into as well. I find it just annoys people more than anything so I try my best to avoid it. Glad you like the term. haha
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee48
Exactly! It seems that you have easily understood the point that seems to have eluded him and It seems most academics that have had a say in determining these boundaries came to these conclusions as they considered all the facts too. I consider Pittsburgh a gateway city to the North but not the south. To your point there is much of Southern Pennsylvania that is further south than WV and obviously Pennsylvania is not considered a Southern gateway despite that fact. I'd have considered Philadelphia as an example as well since it brings in Delaware a federally defined southern state (I have bones to pick with this but another time) to illustrate the same concept too but it seems it would have been too much nuance for him as well so I stuck to one. Your Cincinnati example is interesting I often look at Cincinnati and Louisville together. Both could claim to be gateways North and South generally speaking but that is not exactly the feeling you get in either and neither region seems to be embracing the both narrative. Cincinnati seems to be more of a gateway North for me and always feels like really leaving the south. The Kentucky side or the river is not urban at all compared to the Ohio side and feels Southern going and coming. The Ohio side feels like officially being "up north" as soon as you hit the bridge over the Ohio. Louisville is pretty much the opposite. Despite the Indiana side here being less urban crossing into Louisville from Ohio feels like having left the North. Both seem to be embracing their respective gateway statuses. As far smaller cities there are several that can be considered respective gateways.
It's an interesting perspective. I'd never heard your interpretation of a gateway city before today. But I get what you mean.
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