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Have you ever been to St Louis? Or Detroit? Memphis does not compare to the blight, abandonment and decay in those 2 cities, and it's sad to see.
A huge cause of this blight is that St Louis had 900,000+ people in 1950, and has 300k today, whereas Detroit had 1.8 million in 1950 and has about 675k today, roughly.
Memphis, by comparison, had about 390k in 1950 and has 650k today. Granted, some annexation is a reason for that growth--but not a ton. Memphis just has not suffered population collapse anywhere near Detroit and St Louis, which results in thousands of abandoned buildings and homes.
No, I haven't been to those cities, have you been to Memphis?
This is the problem with our analytical obsessed forum, everything isn't quantified by numbers. Memphis hasn't suffered the population loss of St. Louis or Detroit and I think many people would find the blighted areas in Memphis comparable to those two. Everything I've heard about St. Louis and Detroit, every video I've seen, there are comparable areas in Memphis...
For a minor point of reference, my (step)mother is from Memphis and lived in St. Louis. Her sister, my aunt's family, currently live in St. Louis...
Memphis has targeted a few areas for redevelopment, but as I mentioned earlier, there are and were areas of completely abandoned and shuttered housing projects; completely or partially abandoned streets that qualify as urban prairie; burned out homes and former businesses; grafitti'd structure; and in all of these areas there was a high level of crime and poverty. Sounds and looks like everything I've seen or heard about Detroit or St. Louis...
If there was a statistic to look at to compare blight across cities, it isn't population loss (several cities lost population and regained an amount of it), it's the level of poverty within an area. The poverty in mich of South Memphis is as high as anywhere. Here's the neighborhood my mother grew up in:
The irony here is that Google caught this neighborhood on a good day. Google never seems to catch impoverished areas with homeless and addicts strolling around, or drug transactions in progress. But I think anybody with base level critical thinking can peruse around the link I posted and see examples of abandonment and decay...
I haven't lived in Memphis in years but I visited pretty frequently up until my grandmother's death in 2017, and know parts of the city pretty well, as in I can get around without a guide or map. This definitely isn't as bad a block or neighborhood as it can get in Memphis, and there are many days I've seen this exact area look worse in person. I guess if I haven't been to some of the cities listed and you haven't been to Memphis, whose to say which "seems" worse? The point is that they are comparable...
I'll reiterate, among sizable cities, Memphis and Baltimore are the worst two I can easily recall from the top of my head. The worst areas of Baltimore, I've seen comparable areas in Memphis, and vice versa. It really is jarring...
Just more examples that clearly display characteristics of blight:
It's very clear that certain parts of Memphis used to be more populated. The abandoned structures and chunks of land that used to hold houses and apartments attest to that. This is obvious in person, on the ground, and makes it comparable to any other city in question. I'm not in to a "who is worse" game, only in interest of the thread, I'm pointing out that Memphis is amongst the most blighted cities....
No, I haven't been to those cities, have you been to Memphis?
This is the problem with our analytical obsessed forum, everything isn't quantified by numbers. Memphis hasn't suffered the population loss of St. Louis or Detroit and I think many people would find the blighted areas in Memphis comparable to those two. Everything I've heard about St. Louis and Detroit, every video I've seen, there are comparable areas in Memphis...
For a minor point of reference, my (step)mother is from Memphis and lived in St. Louis. Her sister, my aunt's family, currently live in St. Louis...
Memphis has targeted a few areas for redevelopment, but as I mentioned earlier, there are and were areas of completely abandoned and shuttered housing projects; completely or partially abandoned streets that qualify as urban prairie; burned out homes and former businesses; grafitti'd structure; and in all of these areas there was a high level of crime and poverty. Sounds and looks like everything I've seen or heard about Detroit or St. Louis...
If there was a statistic to look at to compare blight across cities, it isn't population loss (several cities lost population and regained an amount of it), it's the level of poverty within an area. The poverty in mich of South Memphis is as high as anywhere. Here's the neighborhood my mother grew up in:
The irony here is that Google caught this neighborhood on a good day. Google never seems to catch impoverished areas with homeless and addicts strolling around, or drug transactions in progress. But I think anybody with base level critical thinking can peruse around the link I posted and see examples of abandonment and decay...
I haven't lived in Memphis in years but I visited pretty frequently up until my grandmother's death in 2017, and know parts of the city pretty well, as in I can get around without a guide or map. This definitely isn't as bad a block or neighborhood as it can get in Memphis, and there are many days I've seen this exact area look worse in person. I guess if I haven't been to some of the cities listed and you haven't been to Memphis, whose to say which "seems" worse? The point is that they are comparable...
I'll reiterate, among sizable cities, Memphis and Baltimore are the worst two I can easily recall from the top of my head. The worst areas of Baltimore, I've seen comparable areas in Memphis, and vice versa. It really is jarring...
Just more examples that clearly display characteristics of blight:
It's very clear that certain parts of Memphis used to be more populated. The abandoned structures and chunks of land that used to hold houses and apartments attest to that. This is obvious in person, on the ground, and makes it comparable to any other city in question. I'm not in to a "who is worse" game, only in interest of the thread, I'm pointing out that Memphis is amongst the most blighted cities....
Memphis is no star, that's for sure. And it is a rough-around-the-edges city in certain areas, as compared to many others on its level.
I have been to Memphis, as well as St Louis and Detroit. Memphis does not have the level of blight to match Detroit at all, and St Louis has a ton more abandoned buildings. Memphis has a lot of rough looking, poor and sketch neighborhoods--but not as decayed as the other 2.
Both Detroit and St Louis feel a lot bigger, and that is due to their metro area populations, as well as both of those cities having major industries and being amongst the largest, top 10 cities in the US in the mid to later 20th century. One thing with Memphis, is that its suburbs are not as affluent or well-established--or as densely populated (or AS populated) as either St Louis or Detroit's suburbs.
Detroit has areas that are now completely overgrown and reforested and wooded, where homes used to stand. Kinda fascinating while disturbing at the stame time. There are rows and rows of abandoned neighborhoods. St Louis has over 7,000 abandoned buildings itself!
If I had to rank these 3 for overall blight, I'd go with:
*Detroit by FAR due to it's massive population loss, industry loss and crime during the 1960s to early 2000s.
*St Louis due to its massive population loss, crime and poverty, but feels much more vibrant and larger than Memphis due to industry, larger metro and affluent neighborhoods.
*Memphis does not have as many abandoned buildings at all, because the population has not suffered huge losses like either Detroit or St Louis. However, it feels more poor and overall less vibrant and dynamic of a city, due to poor suburbs in Arkansas and some in northern Mississippi.
I have been to Memphis, as well as St Louis and Detroit. Memphis does not have the level of blight to match Detroit at all, and St Louis has a ton more abandoned buildings. Memphis has a lot of rough looking, poor and sketch neighborhoods--but not as decayed as the other 2.
Both Detroit and St Louis feel a lot bigger, and that is due to their metro area populations, as well as both of those cities having major industries and being amongst the largest, top 10 cities in the US in the mid to later 20th century. One thing with Memphis, is that its suburbs are not as affluent or well-established--or as densely populated (or AS populated) as either St Louis or Detroit's suburbs.
Detroit has areas that are now completely overgrown and reforested and wooded, where homes used to stand. Kinda fascinating while disturbing at the stame time. There are rows and rows of abandoned neighborhoods. St Louis has over 7,000 abandoned buildings itself!
If I had to rank these 3 for overall blight, I'd go with:
*Detroit by FAR due to it's massive population loss, industry loss and crime during the 1960s to early 2000s.
*St Louis due to its massive population loss, crime and poverty, but feels much more vibrant and larger than Memphis due to industry, larger metro and affluent neighborhoods.
*Memphis does not have as many abandoned buildings at all, because the population has not suffered huge losses like either Detroit or St Louis. However, it feels more poor and overall less vibrant and dynamic of a city, due to poor suburbs in Arkansas and some in northern Mississippi.
I guess I'll just take your word for it that Memphis isn't quite as blighted as the other two. But if you take the time to review the links, there is a clear illustration of abandonment where homes and businesses once stood. Maybe it doesn't have the widespread abandon and decay of the other two, but there are absolutely blocks and streets in Memphis that nature has reclaimed, at least in part...
I obviously can't link every neighborhood in Memphis with extraordinary blight, so I guess you'll have to take my word for it, too. Even the links I posted aren't as bad as I've seen in Memphis, and an interesting case study is how much of the city of Memphis depopulated to flee to its eastern suburbs and Mississippi, and left the decay and hollow in city neighborhoods behind them, just like Rust Belt cities. In fact, I'd say Memphis is the most Rust Belt like city in the entire South, and only subsequent annexations prevented it from appearing to have the population loss of a Rust Belt city...
I remember I used to hang out in Buffalo when I was living in Upstate NY, and how starkly it reminded me of Memphis in several ways. Incidentally, my mother was born in Memphis but raised in rural Western NY most of her adolescence, so she has family in Buffalo, and a significant percentage of black Buffalonians and Upstate New Yorkers are rooted in the South and places like Memphis. There are some historical bonds between Memphis and many northern cities, and if you peel it back a little you can see cross-cultural similarities Memphis has with a number of places. Those black Memphians (and other southerners) that headed to Buffalo, Detroit, St. Louis, took their personalities and cultures with them and these things are still evident today...
Atlanta has nothing on some of the cities we're discussing here.
On a citywide scale, you're right. Atlanta doesn't have anything on cities like Detroit, St. Louis, or Baltimore when it comes to blight. Though it never got that bad in the city limits, it did get pretty blighted in several areas... a lot of which are considered trendy these days. Now when it comes to a neighborhood level, Atlanta has a few that are just a tier below the worst neighborhoods in those cities listed above. These are neighborhoods like English Avenue a.k.a The Bluff (they've torn down A LOT of abandoned or fire burned houses & apartments in this neighborhood so it's feels different than it used to but it's still probably the poorest neighborhood in the city), Bankhead (right up there with the Bluff. actually looks worse in some places, especially the giant abandoned Chappell Forest apartments), Pittsburgh (improving slowly but it's way further behind than neighboring Adair Park and Mechanicsville. there are still many abandoned/fire damaged properties. i'm curious to see the effect of the beltline coming through in the future), sections of Dixie Hills (that whole area with the stretch of fire burned apartments on Verbena Street, Shirley Place, Wadley Street, etc + the abandoned apartments on Anderson Avenue.) sections of Vine City (mainly the northwestern half of the neighborhood around Thurmond and Newport streets) , sections of Lakewood Heights (mainly the section west of Jonesboro Road). I have experience with each of these neighborhoods and each gives off a different vibe than the other. The city has always been known for tearing down buildings but ever since 96' Olympics, it's been kicked into overdrive. Same thing after they started building the Mercedes Benz stadium. So much demolition has occurred on the westside of the city in such short time. They've torn down hundreds of decayed houses but also several huge abandoned and blighted apartment complexes like Holly Street apartments, the apartments that used to be on Northside Drive right next to the stadium, those two large apartment complexes on Bolton Road that looked like they were bombed out, etc. The city is getting rid of the blight at a quick pace.
From my own personal experience the most blighted cities I have witnessed were the cities in NJ (Newark, Irvington, Camden, Trenton, Patterson), and Baltimore. I chose Baltimore because its a large city.
The entire West Coast, New England, and Washington DC areas should not be on the list. From a regional perspective I think the Midwest and East coast overall have the most blighted ghettos.
I do ont even consider southern ghettos that much blighted since many of the communities look identical. If anything many of the ghettos just look more rural than the nice communities.
While it is fair to pick Baltimore because it is a large city with some large blighted areas, I think comparing Baltimore with those smaller blighted cities is a bit misleading for two reasons.
First, Baltimore has much lower poverty rates than Camden, Trenton, Newark, etc., so the average neighborhood shows a lot more prosperity (even if vacancy is high.) Also, incomes are rising much faster than in the smaller cities, which also helps. I live in a Census tract with a vacancy rate of over 18% and a 23% poverty, but the majority of blocks don't have any city designated vacant homes and there is a lot of apparent prosperity. (A couple of blocks with vacancy of over 50%, which really drives up the average.) There are areas all over the city that look mostly solid even though they have high vacancy rates.
Second, Baltimore has an area of general prosperity that is larger than the are larger than the entire smaller cities (except maybe Newark.)
So, even though the West Baltimore ghetto is huge, comparing large cities with small ones can be misleading.
At present day, Camden NJ and East St. Louis are probably the worst overall with almost no good neighborhoods at all. Other cities like Baltimore or Newark have lots of blight too but at least have some good parts as well. Flint seems pretty bad too overall but is still better overall than Camden and East St. Louis.
At present day, Camden NJ and East St. Louis are probably the worst overall with almost no good neighborhoods at all. Other cities like Baltimore or Newark have lots of blight too but at least have some good parts as well. Flint seems pretty bad too overall but is still better overall than Camden and East St. Louis.
Camden NJ actually has a surprising amount of development going on; many areas remain a disaster though but billions in development with cranes in the air as we speak.
Camden is also a direct subway ride into Philly in just minutes
I guess I'll just take your word for it that Memphis isn't quite as blighted as the other two. But if you take the time to review the links, there is a clear illustration of abandonment where homes and businesses once stood. Maybe it doesn't have the widespread abandon and decay of the other two, but there are absolutely blocks and streets in Memphis that nature has reclaimed, at least in part...
I obviously can't link every neighborhood in Memphis with extraordinary blight, so I guess you'll have to take my word for it, too. Even the links I posted aren't as bad as I've seen in Memphis, and an interesting case study is how much of the city of Memphis depopulated to flee to its eastern suburbs and Mississippi, and left the decay and hollow in city neighborhoods behind them, just like Rust Belt cities. In fact, I'd say Memphis is the most Rust Belt like city in the entire South, and only subsequent annexations prevented it from appearing to have the population loss of a Rust Belt city...
I remember I used to hang out in Buffalo when I was living in Upstate NY, and how starkly it reminded me of Memphis in several ways. Incidentally, my mother was born in Memphis but raised in rural Western NY most of her adolescence, so she has family in Buffalo, and a significant percentage of black Buffalonians and Upstate New Yorkers are rooted in the South and places like Memphis. There are some historical bonds between Memphis and many northern cities, and if you peel it back a little you can see cross-cultural similarities Memphis has with a number of places. Those black Memphians (and other southerners) that headed to Buffalo, Detroit, St. Louis, took their personalities and cultures with them and these things are still evident today...
Yeah, you should visit and check some areas out in Detroit and St Louis, if you can sometime. Memphis has a long way to go, but some recent heavy redevelopment plans/development plans downtown and in midtown are a good indicator the city is starting to feel some benefits of new developers taking a risk on investment in the city.
Others are saying Baltimore is really bad--and the poll seems to be showing it too. I've only been to Baltimore one time, but travelling through, I saw some blight here and there, and rough neighborhoods, but didn't stop in any of them -- was headed downtown. I'd like to tour a few of the neighborhoods a bit more.
As far as Buffalo, I've actually never been there myself, but have a couple of old friends who lived there and said it had a few great neighborhoods that had gentrified, but it is definitely a city that is in the heart of "rust belt USA." So, I'm sure there's some blight...
Camden NJ actually has a surprising amount of development going on; many areas remain a disaster though but billions in development with cranes in the air as we speak.
Camden is also a direct subway ride into Philly in just minutes
Yes, Camden is starting to get built up a bit. And, a substantial part of Camden is also waterfront. That's a huge draw.
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Even the links I posted aren't as bad as I've seen in Memphis, and an interesting case study is how much of the city of Memphis depopulated to flee to its eastern suburbs and Mississippi, and left the decay and hollow in city neighborhoods behind them, just like Rust Belt cities. In fact, I'd say Memphis is the most Rust Belt like city in the entire South, and only subsequent annexations prevented it from appearing to have the population loss of a Rust Belt city...
