Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-27-2019, 09:19 PM
 
4,159 posts, read 2,844,261 times
Reputation: 5516

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
The burden of proof is on the guy who says Raleigh is playing a different game than Richmond "in every conceivable way", as that was the first bombshell statement made...



Raleigh's museums are good. You're definitively stating Raleigh's are better, but the VMFA is a stronger museum than the NC Museum of History, which is Raleigh's premier museum. Neither are weak on the museum front, and I was pleasantly surprised at the strength of Raleigh's museum infrastructure. Richmond's museum infrastructure is both older and larger with a higher air of sophistication...

Arts and the artistic passions heavily favor Richmond. Neighborhoods heavily favor Richmond...

I'd wager that restaurants are close to a draw at worst. The restaurant scene in Raleigh isn't better...

Parks and sports sure, advantage Raleigh. You have some pretty big cojones to claim Raleigh has Richmond "in every conceivable way", that statement was f*cked as soon as you said it because it isn't even close to being accurate...

Gotta love the Triangle superiority complex hahahaha...
I kind of stopped reading when you said Raleigh’s premier museum was the History when it is easily the worst of the main ones.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-27-2019, 09:27 PM
 
Location: North Raleigh x North Sacramento
5,820 posts, read 5,622,386 times
Reputation: 7118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heel82 View Post
I kind of stopped reading when you said Raleigh’s premier museum was the History when it is easily the worst of the main ones.
Good. I should have stopped reading your hyperbolic, unproven statements earlier. Do forgive me...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2019, 09:40 PM
 
4,159 posts, read 2,844,261 times
Reputation: 5516
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Good. I should have stopped reading your hyperbolic, unproven statements earlier. Do forgive me...
Charleston has a better restaurant scene than Charlotte. It isn’t in Charlotte’s peer group and Charlotte is playing at a different level in every conceivable way even if Charlotte has nothing to compare to the Battery.

Needless to say, you are taking this personally and to the extreme. Richmond is nice (I have been less than impressed with the “nice” restaurants I have tried there and I definitely do not share whatever your take on museums is), but I would never categorically say everything in Raleigh is better. But Raleigh is definitely a tier above Richmond when that wasn’t the case 20 years ago. Being a tier above doesn’t mean everything is better there. I’d rather go brew-hopping in Richmond without question.

I will go further and state I do have a hard time separating out Durham and Raleigh when it makes no logical sense to do so. You can live in the city of Raleigh and not live in the Raleigh MSA. For better or worse, Raleigh and Durham can’t be separated out in these kinds of discussions, no more than Richmond and Petersburg amenities can.

Last edited by Heel82; 02-27-2019 at 10:05 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2019, 11:01 PM
 
994 posts, read 779,427 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
The Census doesn't leave out Akron. It just doesn't meet the standards of MSA inclusion, no matter how close it is.

Columbus grew faster as a city than Austin did 2016-2017, the most recent year available, even with Austin having much larger city limits.
The "how close" standards for MSA inclusion for Cleveland and Akron is a technicality of about 0.5 percent away from meeting the set (yet still arbitrary) commuting standards. But I think Summit and Portage counties (the Akron MSA, and both contiguous counties to Cuyahoga) will be reclassified with the Cleveland MSA the next time around anyway.

This is anecdotal, but for one, the traffic from Summit County into Cuyahoga in the morning (or Cuyahoga to Summit in the evening) seems to be as bad as it ever has been and that's despite hundreds of millions spent to widen I-77 to the Summit border and adding that skyway exit from I-271 to Route 8 in Macedonia (Cleveland suburb that is considered Akron due to it being in Summit County).

Secondly, the Cleveland MSA is growing a lot faster than Akron MSA and its at the point where it seems like that ball has tipped where it's not going to go down any time soon. So, it will only take a relatively small number of people who live in either Portage or Summit counties that also work in Summit or Portage counties to find a new job 15 or 20 minutes to the north/northwest in the Cleveland MSA for it to again combine. And the reason the metros split to begin with was because cities like Macedonia and Twinsburg (for all intents and purposes are Cleveland suburbs located in Summit County) have seen hundreds of housing subdivisions built in the last 20-30 years and both cities also built up sizable suburban like industrial parks (jobs). The housing allowed people from say Bedford or Maple Heights (Cuyahoga County) to move a city or so south into Summit. The industrial parks allowed enough of those to then also live and work in Summit County, thus breaking off Akron into a separate metro because metros are based on county lines. At the same time, those industrial parks also allowed "core" Akron people to more closely link to Cleveland (Summit's growth is mostly in the northern portion).

People from outside the area seem to understand how close in miles Cleveland and Akron are, but don't really understand the dynamics. Yes, it's sprawl, but a huge reason that both Summit and Portage counties are growing (albeit at a slow rate) are due to the people moving there from "Cleveland." It caused the metros to split, even though, at the same time, it actually brought them closer together. Plus, sprawl is mostly why outside counties are being added to an MSA anyway, across the country.

I'll also add that Akron is situated nicely in the broader Northeast Ohio region (4-plus million). It's within 45 miles of the downtowns of three different metros (Cleveland-Canton-Youngstown), plus its own. On top of that, it's within 20 miles of a Fortune 500 company (Smuckers) that is in Wayne County (Wooster micropolitan area), so it disperses enough of the population to keep the commuting number lower than what is needed to have a combined region.

But if you look at it in land size instead of county commuting patterns, Northeast Ohio (four metros, and three micropolitan areas, with the centers almost all being within 60 miles of each other) has double the population as the Columbus MSA in a similar land area.

Part of the reason I moved to where I did (Wadsworth, a city that on the other end of the spectrum is actually considered in the Cleveland MSA but is an overwhelmingly Akron suburb) is due to how centrally it is located. Moved there because at the time the job market in all the NE Ohio metros was soft so figured I could be within an hour of pretty much any job in the region. But now with Cleveland being on a surge, we're considering moving back to the city (or at least Cuyahoga County) to get back within 15-20 minutes (instead of 30-60 minutes) of most of my friends and family.

With all that, I'll say that Columbus has indeed jumped into that tier group of the 2-plus million metro range. But Cleveland still is closer to the Detroit-Minneapolis metro tier, than it is to Columbus. And if you include all of Northeast Ohio (which is similar in land size to Minneapolis' MSA), it is definitely in that tier.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-28-2019, 05:49 AM
 
Location: North Raleigh x North Sacramento
5,820 posts, read 5,622,386 times
Reputation: 7118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heel82 View Post
Charleston has a better restaurant scene than Charlotte. It isn’t in Charlotte’s peer group and Charlotte is playing at a different level in every conceivable way even if Charlotte has nothing to compare to the Battery.

Needless to say, you are taking this personally and to the extreme. Richmond is nice (I have been less than impressed with the “nice” restaurants I have tried there and I definitely do not share whatever your take on museums is), but I would never categorically say everything in Raleigh is better. But Raleigh is definitely a tier above Richmond when that wasn’t the case 20 years ago. Being a tier above doesn’t mean everything is better there. I’d rather go brew-hopping in Richmond without question.

I will go further and state I do have a hard time separating out Durham and Raleigh when it makes no logical sense to do so. You can live in the city of Raleigh and not live in the Raleigh MSA. For better or worse, Raleigh and Durham can’t be separated out in these kinds of discussions, no more than Richmond and Petersburg amenities can.
Don't project your feelings on to me, mane! I'm not taking this personally at all...

You did categorically state that Raleigh was better "in every conceivable way". Now you are trying to walk it back, because if it boils down to "not sharing your take" on "every conceivable way", that means the entire exercise of comparison is subjective, right?

You can't objectively state that Raleigh is categorically in a different tier and better than Richmond in every conceivable way, because that isn't anywhere close to true, but that's exactly what you did. Nobody familiar with both cities will share that opinion, but you'll get a lot of ego massaging on here from those who aren't....

It's alright, Heel. We're only having a conversation!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top