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Cleveland planners and even developers emphasize mixed-used development in order to create more cohesive neighborhoods. I'm surprised if that's not an emphasis as well in Pittsburgh.
All of the above development developments have easy mass transit access to downtown.
Oh no, Pittsburgh is getting developments like that too. What I meant is the phenomena of the "corner store" really isn't a big thing in Pittsburgh. I can't think of anywhere, for example, which looks like Tremont, where there's random businesses scattered in/around Professor Ave. Instead, almost all of the businesses are located in tight linear strips, with the back streets almost exclusively residential. In my old neighborhood (Lawrenceville) despite the rapid gentrification and popularity of the business district along Butler Street, there were lots of former storefronts in the blocks surrounding me. All but two were either converted into single-family homes or small multi-units.
Oh no, Pittsburgh is getting developments like that too. What I meant is the phenomena of the "corner store" really isn't a big thing in Pittsburgh. I can't think of anywhere, for example, which looks like Tremont, where there's random businesses scattered in/around Professor Ave. Instead, almost all of the businesses are located in tight linear strips, with the back streets almost exclusively residential. In my old neighborhood (Lawrenceville) despite the rapid gentrification and popularity of the business district along Butler Street, there were lots of former storefronts in the blocks surrounding me. All but two were either converted into single-family homes or small multi-units.
East Liberty, Shadyside and some of the adjacent areas of Pittsburgh are very attractive to an urbanite like me, and huge mixed use apt complexes like Eastside Bond are great (it'd be even greater if the MLK/East Liberty busway was LRT rapid transit but, ...)... this area is very dense, walkable with narrow streets, interesting old houses (some row homes, many apartments), and plenty of shopping.
Cleveland is 2M and declining (you can'y just pull in Akron or else Louisville could pull in NKY and Lexington, Cincy can pull Dayton, etc)
Can't count Akron as part of the Cleveland region?? Summit county (Akron) is adjacent to Cuyahoga county (Cleveland). In fact there Medina and Portage counties are also adjacent to Cuyahoga but are also considered to be part of Akron and not Cleveland. Almost every other large city in the US counts all of the adjacent counties so the look bigger but Cleveland can't count all of its adjacent counties because they are considered part of Akron. So the Cleveland region (while still not growing ) is actually much larger than it would appear to those who are not familiar with the somewhat unique geography of having two large cities sharing contiguous counties. The whole Cleveland region is more like 2.75 million if you count all contiguous counties which is NOT unfair.
According to google Louisville is 78.8 miles from Lexington while Cleveland is 40.2 miles from Akron.
Oh no, Pittsburgh is getting developments like that too. What I meant is the phenomena of the "corner store" really isn't a big thing in Pittsburgh. I can't think of anywhere, for example, which looks like Tremont, where there's random businesses scattered in/around Professor Ave. Instead, almost all of the businesses are located in tight linear strips, with the back streets almost exclusively residential. In my old neighborhood (Lawrenceville) despite the rapid gentrification and popularity of the business district along Butler Street, there were lots of former storefronts in the blocks surrounding me. All but two were either converted into single-family homes or small multi-units.
That's an interesting observation about Tremont, even though several of those corner retail establishments are now restaurants.
Growing up in a northeast Ohio community, small neighborhood grocery stores were very common. I lived on a block that had TWO corner groceries when I was kid. Car ownership immediately after WWII, especially second car ownership, was not common. Almost all of those stores now are gone.
Oh no, Pittsburgh is getting developments like that too. What I meant is the phenomena of the "corner store" really isn't a big thing in Pittsburgh. I can't think of anywhere, for example, which looks like Tremont, where there's random businesses scattered in/around Professor Ave. Instead, almost all of the businesses are located in tight linear strips, with the back streets almost exclusively residential. In my old neighborhood (Lawrenceville) despite the rapid gentrification and popularity of the business district along Butler Street, there were lots of former storefronts in the blocks surrounding me. All but two were either converted into single-family homes or small multi-units.
Professor Avenue reminds me of Reynolds Street in Point Breeze.
Reynolds Street is a small pocket business district, but it's still a block which is entirely filled in. This is a different typology from Tremont, which is a smattering of businesses here, there, and everywhere. In contrast, even though Professor Ave has businesses, significant portions of it are taken up by housing (or admittedly surface parking and grassy lots).
I mean, as I said, Pittsburgh has these sorts of back street storefronts as well. However, with a handful of exceptions, they've slowly been converted over to residential use over the years. For example, near my house in Highland Park, there were the ghosts of a business district on the 900 block of Mellon Street. Two of the old storefronts - one of which housed a convenience store just this decade, are now expensive single-family homes. One a bit further down the street is vacant, but people are working on it - maybe it will house a business if they go through zoning and get it approved. The only active business left on the street is a dog groomer. Mind you, this is only two blocks away from the Bryant Street business district. But if Cleveland manages to have random back-alley businesses two blocks from its business districts, why can't we?
Detroit:There really is nothing left in the city which is walkable and worth exploring on foot other than Downtown/Midtown. There are suburban walkable nodes though like Hamtramck, Dearborn, Ferndale, Royal Oak, Birmingham, etc.
Corktown and Eastern Market are walkable and worth exploring on foot.
Concerning CORKTOWN, Within the past 5 months, a live music/hipster bar, a bodega, a coffee shop, a pizzeria, and an Irish-Italian-German fusion restaurant have opened. Another new pizzeria, relocating from Pittsburgh, was just announced. Huge mixed-used projects, like this and that are under construction, and Ford's $1 billion autonomous vehicle campus is in planning.
Concerning EASTERN MARKET, yes there are a couple large parking lots in the middle, but Eastern Market is an eclectic district centered on the arts (125 murals, 9 art galleries) and high quality, regionally-sourced food. Here is an example of some of the cool spots that have opened up shop. Another feature is the below-grade former commuter rail line turned into an urban greenway.
Corktown and Eastern Market are walkable and worth exploring on foot.
Concerning CORKTOWN, Within the past 5 months, a live music/hipster bar, a bodega, a coffee shop, a pizzeria, and an Irish-Italian-German fusion restaurant have opened. Another new pizzeria, relocating from Pittsburgh, was just announced. Huge mixed-used projects, like this and that are under construction, and Ford's $1 billion autonomous vehicle campus is in planning.
You're right that I overlooked Corktown, but I wouldn't call the business district truly walkable yet. Michigan Avenue is very wide, and most of the surviving storefronts are on the northern side, while the houses are on the southern side. There's still lots of vacant lots to infill too. It's got quite a way to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10
Concerning EASTERN MARKET, yes there are a couple large parking lots in the middle, but Eastern Market is an eclectic district centered on the arts (125 murals, 9 art galleries) and high quality, regionally-sourced food. Here is an example of some of the cool spots that have opened up shop. Another feature is the below-grade former commuter rail line turned into an urban greenway.
Eastern Market is not walkable, because no one can walk to it. In 2010 the entire area had maybe 50 residents, all of which appear to have either been homeless or lived in only two buildings. The area is cut off by highways to the west and south, borders some of Detroit's worst urban prairie to the east. The housing projects to the north are the only residential population anywhere nearby. Even if you can use transit to get there, most people drive there, making it functionally a suburban node.
These are all outstanding cities and while Pittsburgh does stand out a bit....the rest are really all pretty comparable. None blows the other out but it cannot be denied that Columbus, Louisville, and Indianapolis are the most successful in the last 20 years.
I do think Detroit is at the bottom of the list despite its size...but being twice the size it has twice the potential as does CLE. And Detroit REALLY feels like a major metro. Cleveland really doesn't.
And no you CANT count Akron in the MSA because the census doesn't. Time and again I have brought up how Louisville is geographically one of the smallest major metro areas in the USA...KY has the smallest counties by land area in the USA so Louisville's MSA is very very compact. But that's the card the census bureau dealt Louisville which makes it look smaller on paper than it is in reality. Someone also posted some false stats before. Cuyahoga county is the core Cleveland county at 1.25 million in 457 sq miles of land (1246 is total counting water and perpetually SHRINKING). Jefferson County KY is 771,000 in only 380 sq miles of land (and growing steady)....this figure does NOT include DENSE and walkable areas just one mile from Louisville's core because they are in a different state. Downtown Jeffersonville in the summer would be one of the most pedestrian active neighborhoods among ANY of these cities on a summer Friday evening. If you don't believe me, you have NEVER walked the Big Four Bridge.
And I guarantee none of you have been to the urban waterfront towns in S Indiana as 90% of the commenters here have never even been to Louisville claiming it is good for "bluegrass music" which is possibly the most ridiculous potshot at Louisville I have ever seen since that genre barely even exists there except special occasions.
It should be noted that Detroit MSA is basically stagnant in MSA growth and CLE and PITT are losing metro populations.
I continue to stand by my original statement and many others agree that CLE is not as friendly nor as compact to a weekend tourist, and frankly, not as interesting to many. CLE is sort of a poor man's very small Boston.
The other cities provide a much more unique experience IMO but that's not to say CLE is a weak city. It's amenity package is still very much similar to the other cities here. I do think institutions like the clinic and University Circle in particular give the local boosters a false sense of importance that is probably not backed up on a national scale....at the end of the day, Detroit is the only one in this grouping which is a major MSA. And while Louisville is obviously the smallest, it's bourbon tourism packages , food, and music festivals are packing in the tourists.
I see lots of talk about urban city markets....Louisville's will open soon along with a world class botanical garden on a world class waterfront park, and also a 200 M pro soccer stadium development:
Let me conclude that I feel very blessed to live in a region of such amazing and resurgent cities. Even though CLE and PITT are seriously declining in MSA populations, their core neighborhoods pack lots of interesting nodes. Detroit is getting there too based on a recent visit.
Last edited by Peter1948; 04-01-2019 at 09:01 PM..
MSA or CSA...doesn't matter. They are just arbitrary terms drawn by bureaucrats. Draw a circle 50 miles around any city and that is effectually its region. Do you think people in the Akron area don't interact with people in the Cleveland area? Of course they do and the combined numbers measure the real economic vitality of the entire region, not some imaginary line.
50 miles outside of Cleveland would incorporate Akron. 50 miles outside of Louisville incorporates a much, much smaller number of people. To argue otherwise is just silly. The people are either there or they are not.
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