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That's not true. If you're staying near Tower City's rail transit hub, it's a great way to get to the Flats East Bank or lakefront attractions (Rock Hall, Great Lakes Science Center, U.S.S. Cod, Steamship Mather and the International Women's Air & Space Museum). With a day pass, any tourist should consider its use, especially as walking uphill from the FEB or the Rock Hall can be physically taxing for some or unpleasant in bad weather. Visitors also should check out the C-line free bus trolley which provides access to the FEB (perhaps only on a seasonal basis; check with RTA) and has later hours (until 11 p.m. versus around 7 p.m. for the Waterfront Line; however, the C-line only begins operations at 7 p.m. on weekdays, taking over for the B- and E-lines which operate during the day on weekdays) than the Waterfront Line.
Perhaps one of the best uses of the Waterfront Line for tourists is to use it to get between the Rock Hall and FEB for lunch (assuming re-entry is allowed) given the relative superiority of the FEB restaurants to those in the area of the Rock Hall.
The difficulty of walking to the Flats East Bank or the Lakeshore attractions is the relative elevation of downtown versus the Cuyahoga River valley (the Flats in the downtown area) and lakeshore attractions, largely built on landfill beneath the natural Lake Erie bluff.
The Waterfront Line also provides easy access to First Energy Stadium, perhaps more useful in bad weather as the walk there is fun and easy. It's also more useful for those traveling downtown to the Tower City rail hub on other rail rapid lines as transfer passengers already are in the rail hub and don't have to walk there; Blue and Green line riders don't even have to transfer to the WFL as those lines continue on the WFL tracks.
Yes, great points... And North Coast Harbor, in addition to both the Rock Hall and Science Museum, has morphed into a happening people place, esp in the summertime, with Goodtime III cruises, paddle boat and jet ski rentals, the 4-year-old 2-level Nuevo Mexican restaurant, beach volleyball courts and many grassy spots to lounge around and watch pleasure boats, freighters, planes coming and going into Burke airport and simply the beauty of Lake Erie esp the sunsets. We actually drove there on a lazy Sunday afternoon last summer (actually stopped by while showing a new visitor around downtown) and had to wait in our car a short time to just get a parking space; the area's becoming that popular.
The Waterfront Line serves this area alone (unless you hop of the fairly infrequent (rush hour only, I think) no. 39 bus to North Collinwood and Euclid along Lakeshore Blvd which stop outside the WFL station before 39 buses hop on the Shoreway heading east... As of now the free trolley's don't serve N. Coast Harbor.
I guess the Waterfront Line isn't useless, but it could have been much much more useful if it were planned properly.
I wish the WFL had never been built and instead the FEB and lakefront attractions were serviced by a bus line, supplemented by additional shuttles during big events. The addition of C-line free bus trolley service to the FEB is brilliant, as it provides evening access, assuming the C-line no provides year-round service to the FEB (my memory is that the service is seasonal, but I can't find anything confirming this).
For visitors staying (especially in Tower City hotels or those hotels nearby in the Gateway district) near Tower City's rail transit hub, it's a great way to get to the Flats East Bank or lakefront attractions (Rock Hall, Great Lakes Science Center, U.S.S. Cod, Steamship Mather and the International Women's Air & Space Museum). Ditto for those staying in airport hotels providing free shuttle service to the airport or the West 150th Puritas Red Line station or hotels with easy access to the Red Line in University Circle or Little Italy. This is especially true for guests of the Cleveland Hostel in Ohio City's Market District; the hostel is a block from the West 25th St. line.
With a day pass, any tourist should consider its use, especially as walking uphill from the FEB or the Rock Hall can be physically taxing for some or unpleasant in bad weather. Visitors also should check out the C-line free bus trolley which provides access to the FEB (perhaps only on a seasonal basis; check with RTA) and has later hours (until 11 p.m. versus around 7 p.m. for the Waterfront Line; however, the C-line only begins operations at 7 p.m. on weekdays, taking over for the B- and E-lines which operate during the day on weekdays) than the Waterfront Line.
Day passes are $5.50, $2.75 for seniors and some children, and pre-K children ride for free.
Perhaps one of the best uses of the Waterfront Line for tourists would be to use it to get between the Rock Hall and FEB for lunch (assuming Rock Hall re-entry is allowed) given the relative superiority of the FEB restaurants to those in the area of the Rock Hall.
The difficulty of walking to the Flats East Bank or the Lakeshore attractions is the relative elevation of downtown versus the Cuyahoga River valley (the Flats in the downtown area) and lakeshore attractions, largely built on landfill beneath the natural Lake Erie bluff. Admittedly, these uphill elevations aren't difficult for healthy adults, especially in cooler weather and otherwise good weather.
The Waterfront Line also provides easy access to First Energy Stadium, perhaps more useful in bad weather as the walk there is fun and easy. It's also more useful for those traveling downtown to the Tower City rail hub on other rail rapid lines as transfer passengers already are in the rail hub and don't have to walk there; Blue and Green line riders don't even have to transfer to the WFL as those lines continue on the WFL tracks.
It runs every 1/2 hour from 7-7. It’s usefulness is reflected in its ridership numbers.
Yes, great points... And North Coast Harbor, in addition to both the Rock Hall and Science Museum, has morphed into a happening people place, esp in the summertime, with Goodtime III cruises, paddle boat and jet ski rentals, the 4-year-old 2-level Nuevo Mexican restaurant, beach volleyball courts and many grassy spots to lounge around and watch pleasure boats, freighters, planes coming and going into Burke airport and simply the beauty of Lake Erie esp the sunsets. We actually drove there on a lazy Sunday afternoon last summer (actually stopped by while showing a new visitor around downtown) and had to wait in our car a short time to just get a parking space; the area's becoming that popular.
And they now charge for parking on the East 9th pier. The Muny parking lot is a cheaper alternative, if driving.
Another great use of an RTA day pass when visiting the Rock Hall, is to stay on the Green or Blue Line after leaving the Rock Hall and continue to Shaker Square, with its great restaurants (Balaton, Fire, EDWINS, etc.), Larchmere restaurants and attractions a short walk away, or even to continue after dinner on the Green Line to check out Shaker Hts. mansions, perhaps even getting off to explore the estates on N. Park or the Horseshoe Lake Trail (Attleboro stop).
The Waterfront Line serves this area alone (unless you hop of the fairly infrequent (rush hour only, I think) no. 39 bus to North Collinwood and Euclid along Lakeshore Blvd which stop outside the WFL station before 39 buses hop on the Shoreway heading east... As of now the free trolley's don't serve N. Coast Harbor.
For day-time visits to the lakefront attractions, the weekday B-line serves the intersection of Lakeside and East 9th St., but it's still an uphill walk. Any guest at the Doubletree Lakeside Hotel should familiarize themselves with the B-line.
You definitely should visit. My gf and I had a great time going for the early Kentucky Derby days (Thursday and Friday). Definitely would go back some day.
I plan to. My job has taken me to places nearby: Cincy, Lexington, Covington, etc... But Louisville is on my hit list. It's an old, very established city with lots of culture and, from what I'm learning, a number of charming old walking districts esp to the south of downtown... It's a bigger city/metro area than I perceived (much more than just Ali's hometown and Churchill Downs), and from what I'm learning about it, Louisville is more desirable, as a place to visit, that either Indy or Columbus ... at least from my view.
And they now charge for parking on the East 9th pier. The Muny parking lot is a cheaper alternative, if driving.
Another great use of an RTA day pass when visiting the Rock Hall, is to stay on the Green or Blue Line after leaving the Rock Hall and continue to Shaker Square, with its great restaurants (Balaton, Fire, EDWINS, etc.), Larchmere restaurants and attractions a short walk away, or even to continue after dinner on the Green Line to check out Shaker Hts. mansions, perhaps even getting off to explore the estates on N. Park or the Horseshoe Lake Trail (Attleboro stop).
For day-time visits to the lakefront attractions, the weekday B-line serves the intersection of Lakeside and East 9th St., but it's still an uphill walk. Any guest at the Doubletree Lakeside Hotel should familiarize themselves with the B-line.
It runs every 1/2 hour from 7-7. It’s usefulness is reflected in its ridership numbers.
So what? Persons with urban smarts always time arrivals to match transit schedules. Ridership numbers have nothing to do with usefulness to tourists.
The last time I rode the WFL was on a very hot day in the early afternoon. I had an interesting chat with a couple tourists while waiting in Tower City. I wasn't going to the Rock Hall, but to the U.S.S. Cod, which I hadn't visited in years. It was a fun excursion and I was thankful that I didn't have to walk from Tower City to the lakefront.
The reality is that the WFL provides a way to get to the FEB and the lakefront with less physical excursion.
For tourists, it also eliminates the uncertainty of walking unfamiliar streets.
Admittedly, if it had been a cooler day and if I weren't feeling lazy after a busy day, I might have walked to the lakefront, mostly to check out East 9th St. which I used to walk daily but haven't walked between the stretch from Chester Ave. to the Galleria in several decades, and other stretches for many years.
Driving down East 9th St., it seems relatively dead compared to the past, with the only excitement offered by the Winking Lizard in the Galleria. Gone are the retail stores, Hough Bakery, even the Roxy. Perhaps I would be surprised if actually walking East 9th St. during a weekday (e.g., apparently there's a furniture store at 1717 East 9th).
It runs every 1/2 hour from 7-7. It’s usefulness is reflected in its ridership numbers.
As I said, regular weekday ridership numbers are small. But I also noted, there are promising developments planned that can boost these numbers (notably FEB Phase III)... but the summer festivals, Flat Out Fridays, concerts and events in the Flats and at North Coast Harbor (Tall Ships Festival is another), prove the WFL is popular with a number of suburban visitors...
It would be nice if corporations or entities would provide bennies for the WFL -- the Trolleys are free because they are underwritten by downtown corps (and yes, I agree the trolleys are much better overall downtown circulators than the WFL)... But I do remember, in the 1990s when the WFL was brand new, and the old Flats was still hot, you paid $1 to ride on the Holy Moses Water Taxi by flashing a WFL pass... revelers were heavily using summer weekend WFL trains, to the extent 2-car trains were used and RTA (under more progressive leadership) ran summer weekend trains until 2:00/2:15a... If it worked then, why can't it work now? The WFL gets no current support and much of this ignoring came form the regressive RTA administration that left office last Sept, thankfully. Hopefully things will change at some point.
Well I certainly won't hate on a whole city just because of one, ah, person (I can't say what I'd like to say). That's just plain silly. Whatever Peter's problem is his alone and we disgrace ourselves if we sink to his level... I'm actually intrigued by Louisville and would like to visit. It's got many cultural assets, but I doubt its on the level of a Cleveland or Cincinnati.
I'm a recent transplant to Louisville, and I chose where to live partly based on Peter's posts. He's very knowledgeable about the city, and I think his enthusiasm is partly a reaction to the somewhat blase attitude the locals often have about their home. I've lived in five different regions in the U.S. and in Europe. I have traveled to many US and European cities... Louisville has a lot more going for it than the natives seem to realize. You get a good amount of urban amenities and some local flavor for the COL. I'm new to the Midwest, so I haven't been to Cleveland or even Cincinnati (other than the airport), but you're probably right. They probably do have a bit more going for them than Louisville, but for a metro of 500,000 in Kentucky of all places, Louisville isn't bad.
The Waterfront Line in Cleveland is good to have and keep at least for rush hour and special events services. It can supposedly serve a pretty incredible array of things like the expanding EFB developments, lakefront development, the northern bits of downtown and the amtrak station—but these would only be the case if these were actually developed/improved. Right now, it’s a bit of a novelty, but keeping service helps reserve the right-of-way and pushes the business case in the future for development.
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