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Ok, let's clear up a few misconceptions before I quote you any further.
Davidson county
715k population
89k added 2010-2020 (14% increase)
504 sq miles of land
No annexations 2010-2020
Mecklenburg county
1.115 million population
196k added 2010-2020 (21% increase)
523 sq miles of land
No annexations 2010-2020
Keep in mind that Charlotte's land area is 200 sq/miles smaller than Nashville's land area, but somehow Charlotte has 200,000 more people. The consolidation of Davidson/Nashville was a massive land-grab that even made the queen of annexation (Charlotte) blush.
Thanks for the correction then if Charlotte indeed did not annex during the previous decade. Makes the population growth there very impressive.
Thanks for the correction then if Charlotte indeed did not annex during the previous decade. Makes the population growth there very impressive.
Charlotte as a city probably did some annexations which is why I shared the county growth stats (the county boundaries don't move). I don't think anyone really takes city population stats seriously anymore (at least I don't). Very few US cities have nearly 1 million residents packed into a 50 sq/mile or less area, but San Francisco has close to that.
When it comes to the future skylines of Charlotte and Nashville; it's really anyone's guess beyond 2025. If there is a need, either one of these cities could build three to five 600-footers between now and 2027. I'd be a rich man if I could accurately predict which city will do it.
It's very difficult to predict future developments (especially highrise developments). However, there is a simple way to check the "pulse" of an area's high rise real estate market. For starters; I am one of those people who can afford to pay $5,000/month for an apartment if I wanted to (not trying to brag here, just being honest). Almost all of these type of apartment buildings have websites with fully transparent data on availability and pricing. I checked the availability and pricing of 505 Nashville and The Vue in Charlotte (the tallest residential buildings in both cities). Nashville's tallest is 45 stories and Charlotte's tallest is 51 stories (pretty much the same height). I do believe that Charlotte's tallest is older, but this should not affect pricing much at all.
From what I can tell, 505 Nashville has a handful of available units starting at around $1,900/month with the earliest availability on December 5th of this year. The Vue Charlotte has an availability of December 31st this year and a starting price point of $2,900/month. There's also a $5,300/month unit available for move in today.
If these prices is a microcosm of the overall high-rise market in these respective cities; then my mind is instantly wondering how well will Nashville fair when the prices inevitably go up to the level that they should be at now?
$1,900/month is not (I repeat IS NOT) what any major US city can expect from high rise living moving forward. Because of the industries and corporate offices
(and small business owners such as myself) Charlotte's residents have proven that we can afford $3,000 or $4,000 or even $5,000 per month. Everything is market-driven and from what I can tell the rent prices in Charlotte's tallest residential building is double the price of what I'm seeing in Nashville's tallest residential building.
There are two factors in the economic cycle of real estate; there's the building's construction and then there is the absorption of the building by the market. This cycle is often times driven by the population growth of a market. Davidson county added a little over 80,000 residents last census. Mecklenburg county North Carolina added almost 200,000 residents in the same time. When it comes to land area both counties are almost identical (so physical size of the counties had no factor in the growth).
Proposals are all fine and dandy, but the minute a high-rise residential goes up (and it cannot command its fair market value in rent deposits from its population); new investors will see THAT as a "red flag" and they will put their plans on hold. This is the harsh truth in real estate that no city is exempt from.
If Nashville had the building with longer wait times and higher rents then I would put my money on Nashville. However, that is not what I'm seeing. Feel free to go on to the websites of both of those buildings and fact check me on this. If I am wrong and I read something incorrectly I have no problem conceding.
You can't really compare the "tallest building" to economics and rental prices.... If that's the case then the Devon's tower in Oklahoma city will be the only catalyst for OKC's growth, which it's not. With that logic, we can compare Four Seasons rental prices once it's complete, since it'll be considered the tallest residential/hotel building.
Also, the average rental prices in both the urban areas of Nashville and Charlotte are pretty similar. They're both roughly around the 1500+ range. I would rather go off the average of both cities versus the tallest.
The rental prices in Nashville fluctuates, especially depending of the time of year, because you know with Nashville being a touristy city with "Airbnbs/rental properties".
For Davidson county, it's kind of difficult to gauge the amount of added residents compared to Mecklenburg county, because most of Nashville's growth is in the metro area. Also, Davidson county has a bunch of undeveloped land in the north and western parts because the area is too rugged to build anything cost efficiently on.
You can't really compare the "tallest building" to economics and rental prices.... If that's the case then the Devon's tower in Oklahoma city will be the only catalyst for OKC's growth, which it's not. With that logic, we can compare Four Seasons rental prices once it's complete, since it'll be considered the tallest residential/hotel building.
Also, the average rental prices in both the urban areas of Nashville and Charlotte are pretty similar. They're both roughly around the 1500+ range. I would rather go off the average of both cities versus the tallest.
The rental prices in Nashville fluctuates, especially depending of the time of year, because you know with Nashville being a touristy city with "Airbnbs/rental properties".
For Davidson county, it's kind of difficult to gauge the amount of added residents compared to Mecklenburg county, because most of Nashville's growth is in the metro area. Also, Davidson county has a bunch of undeveloped land in the north and western parts because the area is too rugged to build anything cost efficiently on.
When it comes to future high rise developments, we most certainly can check the areas' "pulse" by seeing how well the most expensive (and tallest) residential structure is doing. The average rent of both cities means nothing if we are trying to predict future highrise developments. I believe both cities average around $1,200-$1,400 per month in rent (that's off the top of my head without Google assistance). The high-rise market should be twice as much as the city's averages because most highrises are in the "luxury" category. Simply put, the most luxurious highrise rentals in both cities have different demands from their respective markets. Furthermore, tourism is NOTHING to brag about being that the GDP of cities such as Denver, Minneapolis, and Charlotte are all greater than Las Vegas, Nashville, and Orlando. Your visitors aren't renting highrise apartments because if they were, they'd be residents instead of visitors. Tourism isn't the panacea for everything. However, tourism IS definitely a reason to build more highrise hotels. I can absolutely see Nashville out-performing its peers in hotel developments.
When it comes to future high rise developments, we most certainly can check the areas' "pulse" by seeing how well the most expensive (and tallest) residential structure is doing. The average rent of both cities means nothing if we are trying to predict future highrise developments. I believe both cities average around $1,200-$1,400 per month in rent (that's off the top of my head without Google assistance). The high-rise market should be twice as much as the city's averages because most highrises are in the "luxury" category. Simply put, the most luxurious highrise rentals in both cities have different demands from their respective markets. Furthermore, tourism is NOTHING to brag about being that the GDP of cities such as Denver, Minneapolis, and Charlotte are all greater than Las Vegas, Nashville, and Orlando. Your visitors aren't renting highrise apartments because if they were, they'd be residents instead of visitors. Tourism isn't the panacea for everything. However, tourism IS definitely a reason to build more highrise hotels. I can absolutely see Nashville out-performing its peers in hotel developments.
The average prices I stated were around the downtown and midtown areas, which as you said are mostly full of luxurious high-rises. The "pulse areas". It just doesn't make since comparing the rental prices of the tallest residential buildings of both cities. As I said, I'm pretty sure the rental prices will change once Four Seasons is completed.
I can almost guarantee it'll be more expensive than the tallest residential building in Charlotte. Not including the Ritz Carlton, which they're also building a condo/hotel after the completion of Four Seasons.
The average prices I stated were around the downtown and midtown areas, which as you said are mostly full of luxurious high-rises. The "pulse areas". It just doesn't make since comparing the rental prices of the tallest residential buildings of both cities. As I said, I'm pretty sure the rental prices will change once Four Seasons is completed.
I can almost guarantee it'll be more expensive than the tallest residential building in Charlotte. Not including the Ritz Carlton, which they're also building a condo/hotel after the completion of Four Seasons.
The Charlotte tower that I referenced is about 4 blocks west of a Ritz Carlton that opened back in 2009. The Ritz-Carlton is next door to an NBA arena with a light rail station in between them both. A streetcar line connects the NBA arena the Ritz-Carlton and the tallest residential Tower in the city. Trust me when I say that Nashville's downtown is much more fun to see and visit than Charlotte's downtown. However, downtown Charlotte has quite a few amenities that the casual visitor probably would not expect from a city that does not have Nashville's level of tourism.
The Charlotte tower that I referenced is about 4 blocks west of a Ritz Carlton that opened back in 2009. The Ritz-Carlton is next door to an NBA arena with a light rail station in between them both. A streetcar line connects the NBA arena the Ritz-Carlton and the tallest residential Tower in the city. Trust me when I say that Nashville's downtown is much more fun to see and visit than Charlotte's downtown. However, downtown Charlotte has quite a few amenities that the casual visitor probably would not expect from a city that does not have Nashville's level of tourism.
Yes, but that Ritz Carlton is not a residential building. The one Nashville is building has both condos and hospitality. I was referring to the tallest luxurious buildings as the poster stated.
Yes, but that Ritz Carlton is not a residential building. The one Nashville is building has both condos and hospitality. I was referring to the tallest luxurious buildings as the poster stated.
Nashville is awesome and fun and I love the chicken over at Hattie B's I'll leave it there.
You can't really compare the "tallest building" to economics and rental prices.... If that's the case then the Devon's tower in Oklahoma city will be the only catalyst for OKC's growth, which it's not. With that logic, we can compare Four Seasons rental prices once it's complete, since it'll be considered the tallest residential/hotel building.
Also, the average rental prices in both the urban areas of Nashville and Charlotte are pretty similar. They're both roughly around the 1500+ range. I would rather go off the average of both cities versus the tallest.
The rental prices in Nashville fluctuates, especially depending of the time of year, because you know with Nashville being a touristy city with "Airbnbs/rental properties".
For Davidson county, it's kind of difficult to gauge the amount of added residents compared to Mecklenburg county, because most of Nashville's growth is in the metro area. Also, Davidson county has a bunch of undeveloped land in the north and western parts because the area is too rugged to build anything cost efficiently on.
This is good info, and good points all around.
I think young professional and mid-level professional/family folks are attracted to both Charlotte and Nashville in large numbers, allowing for their downtowns to grow rapidly with residential.
I think Nashville does a better job with its branding, and is very unique with its selling points to move there. Charlotte has a huge financial sector, and that allows for a specific type of professional to move there.
So Nashville's downtown living may also be boosted by folks in the area. At least that may add another layer to potential buyers in the immediate region for downtown residential.
This is a question for some of my Nashville folks; I am genuinely curious as to what the official stance is in Nashville for single-family home zoning? Big city-wide changes were recently adopted in Charlotte about 4 months ago and I am wondering if Nashville is having similar debates. I am asking this because zoning and land-use plays a big part in what the future skyline might look like.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 11-08-2021 at 11:46 AM..
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