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Yeah, I don't think NYC belongs in the conversation. A "quiet" block in NYC is a different thing than a "quiet" block in Boston or Chicago. A super-sleepy NYC neighborhood, say Park Slope, would be considered very vibrant in the context of Boston or Chicago.
Chicago has decent neighborhood vibrancy along Milwaukee in Wicker Park, and even moreso around Broadway/Belmont in Lakeview. That's the busiest non-downtown El stop in the city, so it's always fairly active. But Lincoln Park and Gold Coast are generally quiet. Chicago, generally speaking, has pretty good activity for U.S. standards, but not good for global standards. Good bar scene, but people aren't "strolling" like you see in Europe or NYC or Montreal.
Also, keep in mind that Chicago is VERY centralized. Michigan Ave. has great pedestrian activity. But there are no other remotely equivalent corridors.
Not quite sure what you guys mean. I live near, and spend plenty of time in, NYC, so I think it is an apt comparison. Whatever... that's not the main point. Re Chicago, I'm not sure what you want. If I'm living in a major urban city, I WANT a quiet block. If its just me, or my family/kids whatever, who needs noise and traffic in front of my home? I want it there, but when I want it on my own time... In Chicago, the 'action' is walking distance on the strip from any Chicago residential neighborhood. In addition to this, there are several near-North Side Chicago neighborhoods that strongly resemble those in Manhattan, esp in terms of density and the vertical-ity of apt/condo buildings.
In addition to this, there are several near-North Side Chicago neighborhoods that strongly resemble those in Manhattan, esp in terms of density and the vertical-ity of apt/condo buildings.
There are no Chicago neighborhoods with comparable vibrancy/density as the densest NYC neighborhoods. Not even remotely close.
Even Brooklyn/Bronx/Queens have much higher peak density/activity than anywhere in core Chicago. Places like Flushing, Fordham Rd, Jackson Heights, Flatbush, Sunset Park are easily like 10x busier than Chicago equivalents.
Yeah, I don't think NYC belongs in the conversation. A "quiet" block in NYC is a different thing than a "quiet" block in Boston or Chicago. A super-sleepy NYC neighborhood, say Park Slope, would be considered very vibrant in the context of Boston or Chicago.
I wouldn’t call Park Slope “super-sleepy” (unless compared to Manhattan) but otherwise I agree with you. This would actually makes sense just because Park Slope has higher residential density than any neighborhood in Chicago. But to be honest, I find that in terms of street buzz Chicago neighborhoods don’t even seem to punch at their density weight class. I mean Lake View is 30k psm, which is very respectable, but you wouldn’t tell by the energy level on the streets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
Good bar scene, but people aren't "strolling" like you see in Europe or NYC or Montreal.
Yeah that seems to be the case. In fact, on the same trip last summer, we went to Montreal immediately after Chicago and I found Montreal neighborhoods to be more lively on a Tuesday night than Chicago on a Thursday night. Again maybe this is not entirely characteristic, but that’s what I saw.
I remember on a trip to Chicago a few years ago my gf observed (with her NY eyes): “the city seems kinda deserted, but all the bars and restaurants are still packed”.
I wouldn’t call Park Slope “super-sleepy” (unless compared to Manhattan) but otherwise I agree with you. This would actually makes sense just because Park Slope has higher residential density than any neighborhood in Chicago. But to be honest, I find that in terms of street buzz Chicago neighborhoods don’t even seem to punch at their density weight class. I mean Lake View is 30k psm, which is very respectable, but you wouldn’t tell by the energy level on the streets.
I was comparing Park Slope to other core neighborhoods (so Manhattan + Brownstone Brooklyn + Williamsburg/LIC/Astoria). I think, in that context, Park Slope is kinda sleepy, with all the mid-career families.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian
Yeah that seems to be the case. In fact, on the same trip last summer, we went to Montreal immediately after Chicago and I found Montreal neighborhoods to be more lively on a Tuesday night than Chicago on a Thursday night. Again maybe this is not entirely characteristic, but that’s what I saw.
I remember on a trip to Chicago a few years ago my gf observed (with her NY eyes): “the city seems kinda deserted, but all the bars and restaurants are still packed”.
Agree with all this. Even prior to Uber/Lyft, Chicagoans often drove to nightlife (notice that everywhere in Chicago has valet), so you don't get quite the same nightlife pedestrian feel. Tons of bars/restaurants but not the same nighttime activity. Also, Chicago has alleys, and lots of people are using the alleys to park their cars, and enter-exit their homes.
Not quite sure what you guys mean. I live near, and spend plenty of time in, NYC, so I think it is an apt comparison. Whatever... that's not the main point. Re Chicago, I'm not sure what you want. If I'm living in a major urban city, I WANT a quiet block. If its just me, or my family/kids whatever, who needs noise and traffic in front of my home? I want it there, but when I want it on my own time... In Chicago, the 'action' is walking distance on the strip from any Chicago residential neighborhood. In addition to this, there are several near-North Side Chicago neighborhoods that strongly resemble those in Manhattan, esp in terms of density and the vertical-ity of apt/condo buildings.
I see where you are coming from and, having recently become a family man and a parent, I appreciate this point of view. Still, although I have now lived in NYC for 20 years and sometimes feel like I need more measured pace, I find something unsettling about empty sidewalks at summer time in supposedly some of the hippest neighborhooods of a 3 million city lauded for its great nightlife and vibrancy.
I was comparing Park Slope to other core neighborhoods (so Manhattan + Brownstone Brooklyn + Williamsburg/LIC/Astoria). I think, in that context, Park Slope is kinda sleepy, with all the mid-career families.
Agree with all this. Even prior to Uber/Lyft, Chicagoans often drove to nightlife (notice that everywhere in Chicago has valet), so you don't get quite the same nightlife pedestrian feel. Tons of bars/restaurants but not the same nighttime activity. Also, Chicago has alleys, and lots of people are using the alleys to park their cars, and enter-exit their homes.
So where would you rather live — Boston or Chicago?
There are no Chicago neighborhoods with comparable vibrancy/density as the densest NYC neighborhoods. Not even remotely close.
Even Brooklyn/Bronx/Queens have much higher peak density/activity than anywhere in core Chicago. Places like Flushing, Fordham Rd, Jackson Heights, Flatbush, Sunset Park are easily like 10x busier than Chicago equivalents.
You are twisting what I said. I said these Chicago "resemble" some Manhattan neighborhoods; I did not say they were exactly the same in terms of density and vibrancy. Quite obviously NYC, esp Manhattan, is the in a class by itself. But some Chicago residential areas that 'resemble' Manhattan are these:
You are twisting what I said. I said these Chicago "resemble" some Manhattan neighborhoods; I did not say they were exactly the same in terms of density and vibrancy. Quite obviously NYC, esp Manhattan, is the in a class by itself. But some Chicago residential areas that 'resemble' Manhattan are these:
Yes, they loosely resemble each other in that they have lots of dense highrises in an urban American setting, but they're functionally very different. The Chicago buildings will be like 30% parking garage, and will have wide streets, alleys and backyards. The NYC buildings will be wall-to-wall, no alleys, no parking, much tighter streets.
Unless you lived right on Michigan Ave., I don't think you could get a "Manhattan feel" in Chicago. Michigan Ave. has so many tourists and so much retail that you could sorta get a rough NYC feel, even if the street looks pretty different, much wider and more separated uses, with the lawns. But there are still obvious differences. No rail transit on Michigan Ave., giant parking garages, more suburban functionality, no tenements, etc.
But on a neighborhood level, the cities look and feel very different. The Upper West Side, Upper East Side, SoHo, Tribeca, heck, even Brooklyn Heights or Williamsburg, feel very different from anywhere in Chicago. If you lived on Dearborn Parkway in the Gold Coast and moved to Manhattan it would be quite different.
Yes, they loosely resemble each other in that they have lots of dense highrises in an urban American setting, but they're functionally very different. The Chicago buildings will be like 30% parking garage, and will have wide streets, alleys and backyards. The NYC buildings will be wall-to-wall, no alleys, no parking, much tighter streets.
Unless you lived right on Michigan Ave., I don't think you could get a "Manhattan feel" in Chicago. Michigan Ave. has so many tourists and so much retail that you could sorta get a rough NYC feel, even if the street looks pretty different, much wider and more separated uses, with the lawns. But there are still obvious differences. No rail transit on Michigan Ave., giant parking garages, more suburban functionality, no tenements, etc.
But on a neighborhood level, the cities look and feel very different. The Upper West Side, Upper East Side, SoHo, Tribeca, heck, even Brooklyn Heights or Williamsburg, feel very different from anywhere in Chicago. If you lived on Dearborn Parkway in the Gold Coast and moved to Manhattan it would be quite different.
Yeah I stayed in that area last summer — Ambassador Hotel. It’s a lovely, beautiful, elegant neighborhood. One of the most beautiful in the country IMO. And it does resemble the nicer blocks on the UES and UWS. But it doesn’t feel like anywhere in Manhattan. The main reason, I think, is that it’s entirely residential. North of Division/east of Wells — Clark, Dearborn, State and Astor — have virtually zero retail. In Manhattan every single Avenue is a busy retail corridor. From the air, looking from the Hancock observation deck, it looks indistinguishable from Uptown Manhattan. But on the street it feels nothing like it.
I would say the portion of the Gold Coast south of Division (Viagra Triangle and the surrounding blocks) is probably the closest thing Chicago’s got to Manhattan. But, anyway, enough about Chicago vs NYC.
Last edited by Fitzrovian; 09-13-2019 at 12:11 PM..
I'm firmly in the "Chicago has better nightlife by far" camp, so this is kind of a nitpick. But I would say that Boston's biggest issue isn't the lack of activity on the street at night, but the somewhat decentralized nature of it. Apart from Faneuil Hall and, to a degree, the Seaport, most of those are not "downtown" restaurants. So a visitor in a downtown hotel may be inclined to say "Boston's dead!" when walking around at 10pm. But I think the neighborhoods you mentioned (I'd definitely ad Harvard Square and probably Fenway) are not really any less active at night than the more active neighborhoods in peer cities (with some exceptions - i.e. Miami which is generally more nocturnal, and some of the more party-centric towns like Vegas, Nashville, Austin, etc.). But I'd put the places you listed up against most neighborhoods in San Francisco, DC, Philly, Seattle, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, etc. None of which have nearly the same reputation for bad nightlife.
Of course Chicago has better nightlife. It has 4x the population so you have 4x more people who don't have to work the next morning. When I was in my 20s and 30s, my Boston/Cambridge midweek bar crawls usually ended by 10:30 or so because I had to work the next day. My friends were all similar. Boston also has all those college students where the nightlife is pretty subdued midweek since people have to study and the places they hang out tend to be easily accessible from the campus.
I ski. I do salt water things like sailing. Boston has always worked for my lifestyle. My friends with similar lifestyle who moved tended to do the Bay Area or Seattle where they could continue that lifestyle. I can't think of anyone who moved to Chicago.
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