Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
For sure. Personally I like the health line. Would it be better as rail? I guess. But I do think it meets the need. Something being a bus isnt bad. We need to work to overcome this bus stigma I guess.
That being said I do think euclid of any street in Cleveland would be best fit for a permanent rail presence. University circle and downtown are not going anywhere and are huge economic engines for the state. It would be a pretty safe bet, and much more useful than, say, the green line.
I agree. Light train transit sounds sexy (though not as sexy as a subway) and I would have preferred it on Euclid, but the Healthline is what we got (and operates exactly as what a street level train would, IMO).
I would much rather keep the Healthline as is if it means that it would mean improvements to other lines in making Detroit/Lorain/Pearl/E. 55th/Broadway/etc., as BRT as possible. Which is more realistic anyway.
I agree. Light train transit sounds sexy (though not as sexy as a subway) and I would have preferred it on Euclid, but the Healthline is what we got (and operates exactly as what a street level train would, IMO).
I would much rather keep the Healthline as is if it means that it would mean improvements to other lines in making Detroit/Lorain/Pearl/E. 55th/Broadway/etc., as BRT as possible. Which is more realistic anyway.
Yea, the ridership isn’t quite high enough at this point to justify the capacity increase to light and heavy rail given limited funding. What makes sense is to improve RTA as it is now such as implementing BRT in more corridors or upping service frequencies for rail and bus, but put a bit of work into studies and documentation for a conversion in case that federal or state attitudes towards funding massive transit shift dramatically so that RTA can get to shovel ready applications for grant money quickly.
Yea, the ridership isn’t quite high enough at this point to justify the capacity increase to light and heavy rail given limited funding. What makes sense is to improve RTA as it is now such as implementing BRT in more corridors or upping service frequencies for rail and bus, but put a bit of work into studies and documentation for a conversion in case that federal or state attitudes towards funding massive transit shift dramatically so that RTA can get to shovel ready applications for grant money quickly.
You're right, at the moment, neither Cleveland's population overall, in decline, nor the struggling funding of RTA (which absolutely should change) would justify rebuilding the HL into LRT at this time... But as for the future? With the 34-story Lumen close to opening, along with other recent and future planned growth for the PHS area, then throw in (we hope) nuCLEus then a Geis plan for new apts on the surface lots along E.14th south of Prospect ... the population and density in this corridor could justify it... at some point. It's just kind of frustrating to see these potential corridors easy already-build connections to the Tower City Rapid terminal.
Another corridor is the old subway under the Detroit-Superior (Veteran's Memorial) Bridge. The ROW still exists, as does even the station building at W. 25th. The short ROW connection into Tower City (across a TC parking lot entrance) to where the Airport Red Line and WFL emerge, could easily and cheaply be built. And the old, unused Shaker Rapid station, replete with 2 access tracks and a central platform, still exist -- as was evident when RTA temporarily routed all westbound trains through there while it rebuilt a track bed in the current TC station. It would be sweet to have a converted HL LRT through routed through a short subway then heading west under the D-S bridge to the W. 25th subway station, then rising along Detroit Ave to serve the exploding OC/Hingetown neighborhood then westward to Gordon Sq, Cudell and possibly Edgewater Park.
To the East, when trains rise to the surface along Euclid at around E. 17th Street, we could even have a branch north along E. 17th (or E. 18th) to the Lakeshore to complete a Waterfront Line Loop through downtown...
... but I know I'm just pipe dreaming... Fact is, though, our current rail system, good though it is, is way under potential-ized in having so many expansion routes just sitting there (and waiting for some clueless developer to block them with an unneeded building ... like a parking garage.
You're right, at the moment, neither Cleveland's population overall, in decline, nor the struggling funding of RTA (which absolutely should change) would justify rebuilding the HL into LRT at this time... But as for the future? With the 34-story Lumen close to opening, along with other recent and future planned growth for the PHS area, then throw in (we hope) nuCLEus then a Geis plan for new apts on the surface lots along E.14th south of Prospect ... the population and density in this corridor could justify it... at some point. It's just kind of frustrating to see these potential corridors easy already-build connections to the Tower City Rapid terminal.
Another corridor is the old subway under the Detroit-Superior (Veteran's Memorial) Bridge. The ROW still exists, as does even the station building at W. 25th. The short ROW connection into Tower City (across a TC parking lot entrance) to where the Airport Red Line and WFL emerge, could easily and cheaply be built. And the old, unused Shaker Rapid station, replete with 2 access tracks and a central platform, still exist -- as was evident when RTA temporarily routed all westbound trains through there while it rebuilt a track bed in the current TC station. It would be sweet to have a converted HL LRT through routed through a short subway then heading west under the D-S bridge to the W. 25th subway station, then rising along Detroit Ave to serve the exploding OC/Hingetown neighborhood then westward to Gordon Sq, Cudell and possibly Edgewater Park.
To the East, when trains rise to the surface along Euclid at around E. 17th Street, we could even have a branch north along E. 17th (or E. 18th) to the Lakeshore to complete a Waterfront Line Loop through downtown...
... but I know I'm just pipe dreaming... Fact is, though, our current rail system, good though it is, is way under potential-ized in having so many expansion routes just sitting there (and waiting for some clueless developer to block them with an unneeded building ... like a parking garage.
Yea, it's important to keep the right-of-way's open as a larger plan as it is to have studies on hand so that expansions can be shovel-ready quickly if funding opens up.
I think going west on Detroit Avenue as far as possible makes sense especially if at least to a transfer to the Red Line West Blvd-Cudell station for a transfer, though all the way to Lakewood would be best.
Do some of the systems on here get a bad rep for violence?
The MetroLink does here in St. Louis. There's rarely anyone around making sure you bought a ticket to ride, let alone to stop something bad from happening. There's been a few homicides on trains / at the stations here in recent years as well.
I've personally never had an issue on the MetroLink trains, but the security does come across as far less of thing vs the L when I lived in Chicago. I also use the system far less than I did the L, but that's another story.
It probably doesn't help that you have the city, St. Louis County, and St. Clair County in Illinois all squabbling about who should be contributing what to the safety of the system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean
Scooters are in all big cities (aren't they?). I know in Milwaukee, they banned them for a while, but now they're back. Last time I was there, they were all over sidewalks next to Lake Michigan. They aren't mass transit, though, and are an annoyance, as far as I can tell.
Chicago's pilot program just ended. Haven't heard if the city is going to let them comeback yet, and before they were supposed to be designated to specific neighborhoods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
These look pretty good for last and first mile trips in conjunction with transit for longer stretches and have been seeing deployment in a lot of the cities mentioned in this topic. On a recent trip to St. Louis, I saw a great deal of them in use and they are great add-on for the 60 million or so rides per year that the rail and bus system provide. All of these modes help build towards lessening the necessity of private cars for all trips and make for more active streets.
Yeah, no one is taking scooters to go from one end of St. Louis to the other. Their primary use is for people to get around quickly within the neighborhood, and even that drops off once it gets cold/starts snowing.
according to this the Red Line now has 180% of its 2008 service levels but 80% of the ridership, so the Demand might not be there (also possible Heath line end to end riders diverted from the Red Line post 2008) and Downtown has fewer than 90,000 jobs, and the fact that Downtown now has over 16,000 people is probably working against the RTA since many of those people live there because they work there and thus don't need transit.
This site places too much emphasis on small rail systems which honestly suck.
There is an app called Transit now for all major cities. I have said this once, I'll say it again. Scooters are a GAME CHANGER. Here in Louisville, we now have six companies and thousands of scooters.
Scooters are game changers only in cities with little to no mass transit.
I remember riding them the first week they were available in San Diego and thinking it was the greatest thing. Then people riding them on the sidewalk everywhere started to annoy me. Then seeing them thrown everywhere started to annoy me.
Then I went to Seattle and Pittsburgh and saw how much better off they are without them.
according to this the Red Line now has 180% of its 2008 service levels but 80% of the ridership, so the Demand might not be there (also possible Heath line end to end riders diverted from the Red Line post 2008) and Downtown has fewer than 90,000 jobs, and the fact that Downtown now has over 16,000 people is probably working against the RTA since many of those people live there because they work there and thus don't need transit.
Big problems; a plethora of them, but all stem from money, or the lack there of. I read the Greater Cleveland Partnership report and, despite the comment that, even new rail cars, alone, won't cure the Red Line's problems, the entire system needs money for new cars, because the existing ones are old and falling apart, esp those on the LRT division (Blue, Green & Waterfront Lines), which are non-stainless steel car bodies built in Italy nearly 40 years ago. I do not believe Health Line diverted riders are an issue -- they serve different markets and areas of the East Side and, really, the HL ridership grew expansive because, when it opened, RTA ceased running buses from the Heights into downtown along the Euclid corridor, instead, terminating them at the Cleveland Clinic at E. 93rd and forcing downtown commuters to transfer -- either to the Red Line, at Cedar-University or Little Italy-UC, or the HL.
GCP's suggested solutions are logical, however. One is to streamline RTA's top-heavy management expenses and run the system more efficiently. This can and should be done, although comparing RTA to non-rail transit systems like Columbus isn't necessarily helpful because, while I agree RTA is bloated and needs to slim down, I do understand there are management costs attendant to running a rail system which, by nature, is more expensive (although, over the long hall, rail systems are more cost and energy efficient and pollute the environment much less than all bus networks).
Secondly, GCP's idea of growing TOD is currently happening -- and much more is on the drawing board. Downtown employment can, and should, grow. If, for example, Sherwin-Williams does what everyone thinks they will: build a super campus on Public Square, they could more than double the amount of workers -- from around 3,000 to over 6,000 when the consolidate far-flung operations like Valspar and its R&D scattered around, at the Tower City/Public Square RTA rail-bus hub. Remember, there's a massive several-blocks hole next to the NW quadrant of Public Square that didn't exist until 1990 after nearby warehouses were demolished foolishly and PS office buildings were torn down in anticipation of a 2nd 60-story office building that never came to pass -- Sherwin-Williams' massive HQ would plop down right at that spot (we hope in the form of a super tall, but maybe just as a series of medium talls and a dense mini-campus) ... And if the City lands this big, high profile fish in the center of town, I predict a positive ripple effect that can reverse the out-migration of big (and medium and small) employers to the suburbs and even out of state. As the GCP study notes: downtown Cleveland is hot as a growing residential and entertainment place. Officials just need to marshall that advantage into luring jobs back again, though I doubt the City will be the 120-30K employment center it once was ... not for a long time. But some job growth downtown, as well as kick-starting, reinvigorating neighborhoods and TOD near rail stations, is more than doable.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
