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Also saying "Baltimore has more big city development outside of downtown" is patently untrue
This
Baltimore has more liberal zoning and multi-family makes up a slightly larger percentage of its housing stock than Philly but it doesn’t have more large scale developments than Philly at parity or in absolute terms..
Fair. I was looking at GDP per capita from 2017 that had Philadelphia at $63,519 per capita and Baltimore at $59,079, but obviously that has changed since COVID.
Obviously any comparison of "poor man's version" (which I agree with a recent poster who noted this is a derogatory way to frame things when it simply could have been framed "miniature," "twin," etc.) is going to be imperfect. I understand why some people chose Baltimore for Philadelphia's "poor man version" given the similarities many of its neighborhoods have with North and South Philly. IMO, Philadelphia is like 1/4 NYC, 1/4 Boston, 1/4 Baltimore, and 1/4 distinctly Philadelphia.
How is Baltimore just so "socially" similar to Philadelphia? I can see that dynamic with North Philadelphia and parts of West Philadelphia that are north of Market. I really cannot see that with rest of Philadelphia. Socially, Center City reminds me much more of Manhattan and Boston. Socially, the Riverwards area (No. Libs., Fishtown, E. Kensington) reminds me of Brooklyn. Socially, University City feels more like a mini Cambridge than it does akin to Charles Village, etc.
I just don't see nearly the overwhelmingly strong connection that so many do. Not to be dismissive, but I feel like people who say Baltimore is a mini Philadelphia see some rowhomes and working class Black people and think, oh hey, they're the same!
Having attended college in Cambridge, I think that this is one of those rare instances where spatial layout actually affects the atmosphere of a place. Philadelphia's gridded street layout IMO works against University City developing the vibe of a Harvard Square, or even a Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley. The people who use the districts may be the same, but the lack of what I would call a central focal point (the intersections of 34th and Walnut and 40th and Walnut are about as close as we come to having those here) make U-City a little less college-town-y than those other two locales IMO. A better parallel would be with Broadway on New York's Upper West Side in the vicinity of Columbia University. But I would also agree with you that Baltimore doesn't even have that, really. Johns Hopkins University sort of holds itself apart from the city it calls home, and the University of Baltimore is really a commuter school, as is Morgan State University.
Regarding what I boldfaced, I still think one of the best terms I've ever seen coined to describe this city came from a Brookings Metropolitan Policy Program paper commissioned by someone here that assessed the city's condition and prospects in the late 1980s:
"Bostroit."
Since then, I think the "Boston" part has clearly gained the upper hand over the "Detroit" part, but the term still strikes me as vivid in a way few others have been.
Haha, thanks. Ever since my partner moved from Philadelphia to Baltimore for grad school, I am keen on reminding C-Ders that the rowhome + demographic connection does not mean the two cities are mirror images of one another, as if Philadelphia is just the larger mirror.
FWIW, my partner dearly misses Philadelphia. He lives on the border of Downtown and Inner Harbor, and the experience there compared to the experience in Center City Philadelphia is night and day. I will say, he got a complete bargain on a beautiful apartment with a view. You definitely couldn't get something like he has in Downtown Baltimore in Center City Philadelphia for that price.
As much as he misses it here, he is always looking for the upsides of Baltimore. The waterfront there is much nicer, and I do have to say, I enjoy our early morning runs along the harbor. He is always emphasizing that aspect of Baltimore. I hate to be a downer, but I don't think Inner Harbor is quite as nice as he tries to sell it to me, lol. I still prefer my runs along MLK Dr. and the Wiss. "Homer" much?
Isn't the Harborplace festival marketplace pretty much a dead mall now?
Wait, seriously, how was I ripping on Baltimore? Or are you referring to some other poster? Also, can you elaborate on the joke re: waterfront development and declining population?
Fwiw, as a kind of anti-car driver myself, I don’t really see the need for more highways as much as I do repairing and improving the ones we’ve currently got. But yeah getting into Baltimore by car is definitely less of a hassle than Philadelphia.
I don’t know that I was singling out anyone in particular in this thread. I was more trying to stand up for Baltimore. As for the waterfront development, my comment to my SO was general surprise at all of the waterfront development in Baltimore and the continued population decline of that city. In reality, though, adding 5,000 residents near the Inner Harbor and Fells Point is not enough to negate population decline throughout much of the rest of the city.
Our highways suck, and are grossly inadequate. I don’t advocate randomly adding numerous lanes to all of them, but selected capacity enhancements are long overdue. I know you know this, but septa isn’t expanding either; we are stuck with damn near the same infrastructure we had 20-30 years ago, and for whatever reason, the powers that be in this region are ok with that.
Also saying "Baltimore has more big city development outside of downtown" is patently untrue
I said something similar in another post. I subscribe to the YIMBY-Philadelphia emails and am well aware of all the development that is going on. My point was to echo another poster in another thread who commented that Philadelphia is often anti-hi-rise outside of Center City, which is true. Heck, there are city council dimwits trying to downzone much of the Northeast in case the subway plan advances. And the folks from places like Roxborough and Chestnut Hill are absurdly anti-development. They often act like they live in the country.
I don’t know that I was singling out anyone in particular in this thread. I was more trying to stand up for Baltimore. As for the waterfront development, my comment to my SO was general surprise at all of the waterfront development in Baltimore and the continued population decline of that city. In reality, though, adding 5,000 residents near the Inner Harbor and Fells Point is not enough to negate population decline throughout much of the rest of the city.
Our highways suck, and are grossly inadequate. I don’t advocate randomly adding numerous lanes to all of them, but selected capacity enhancements are long overdue. I know you know this, but septa isn’t expanding either; we are stuck with damn near the same infrastructure we had 20-30 years ago, and for whatever reason, the powers that be in this region are ok with that.
Don't let the folks at the King of Prussia (business improvement) District hear you say that too loudly. True, no shovels are in the ground yet, but it seems the momentum for the Route 100 spur is pretty strong despite general agreement that some other rail transit extensions would make more sense.
The BSS Northeast Spur subway isn't dead either, though the odds against it happening are much, much greater and the advocates for its construction not as numerous or as well funded.
Chicago is a poor man's NYC. Has anyone wrote that yet?
I'm sure others have as well, but I literally wrote that earlier today (along with Philly).
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