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I said Mississippi is considerable more southern than the (North) Carolinas. It's considered the deep south and the Carolinas aren't. Mississippi is still flying the Confederate flag on its state flag. Plus, just listen to the average black person from Chicago speak vs blacks from Baltimore. Now I will admit, whites from Baltimore have a much more southern drawl than whites from Chicago.
Y’all are referring to now. I was referring to historically because it does put into context on why people NOW talk the way they talk. Before Migration the Carolinas and Mississippi we’re both considered the south. There was no concept of the Deep South as it used today. Even Today there is no true geographical definition of where Deep South begins and ends. Generally it’s tied to a state that depended heavily on slave society and plantations.
At one point in time, more than half of our ancestors were sent to the America via South Carolina. It was literally West Africa to South Carolina then you were sold and had to go to other parts of the south from SC. In my family Tree I literally found that out on my Dad’s Mom side and on my Mom’s Dad side he arrived via Virginia. What I’m saying was a system that was all connected with one another. It didn’t become dramatically different till after the emancipation.
The historical context is very important because we do know that Chicago and Baltimore experienced an influx of Black Southerners from different regions of mostly Rural South from 1916 to 1970s. There was no outside influence in the Carolinas during that period. That mass influx of southerners helped shaped the culture and dialect and accents that we hear today.
As far as Today, yeah Mississippi is more southern the Carolinas now. Mississippi is one of the poorest if not poorest state in the country. There’s not a lot of people moving there so it’s still been able to keep its historical culture intact. It’s also one of the poorest and least educated states so those 2 attributes are usually associated with the stereotypical “southern image”. Louisiana/Alabama/ Georgia(minus Atlanta) also have that perception generally for that reason.
Still it was only in 2015 when the sista Bree Newsome climbed the pole to take down the confederate battle flag in South Carolina state House after the Charleston Church shooting massacre.
It’s rural areas in the Carolinas that look and feel no different than parts of Mississippi. Mississippi just holds the title because it has some very very bad publicity. Even to other Southerners. And it’s deserving of that perception but it ain’t the only one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Nobody considers the Carolinas more Southern than Mississippi. Nobody.
You think people in the South pre migration we’re saying this? I highly doubt it. I’m not speaking in modern terms because that’s irrelevant to the origin of certain cultures and dialects of Chicago and Baltimore. I’m speaking historically.
Coastal SC is growing much faster and has been for much longer, by far, than coastal Mississippi. Check out the growth rates for Charleston, Myrtle Beach, and Hilton Head versus Biloxi and Gulfport.
Mississippi has 10x the old plantation South feel than SC, which is one of the fastest-growing states in the country and it's not due to a bunch of folks from other parts of the South moving there.
Coastal MS is more southern than coastal SC, Jackson is more southern than Columbia, the Memphis suburbs are more southern than the Charlotte suburbs, Upstate SC is more southern than northeastern MS, etc. There is more Northern influence in practically every part of SC than MS and statistics back that up.
I don't disagree with your assessment of MS. I'm saying that SC is no less southern than any other deep southern state. Geographically, historically, Culturally, I stand by that.
You think people in the South pre migration we’re saying this? I highly doubt it. I’m not speaking in modern terms because that’s irrelevant to the origin of certain cultures and dialects of Chicago and Baltimore. I’m speaking historically.
Well let's look at it this way. The Geechee/Gullah dialect is easily the most distinctive among the Black populations of both states. Is there more of a trace of that dialect within Baltimore's Black population or the Mississippi Delta dialects within Chicago's Black population?
I don't disagree with your assessment of MS. I'm saying that SC is no less southern than any other deep southern state. Geographically, historically, Culturally, I stand by that.
It's really a moot point though I'd say. It seems that Chicago's Black population mostly has origins in the Deep South compared to Baltimore's, which also had a somewhat sizable Black population pre-Great Migration. I think Black Chicago's ties to the Deep South are overall stronger as well; this is probably because Blacks in the Carolinas had more options as far as cities to relocate to during the Great Migration years than Blacks in the Mississippi Delta region. Blacks from SC in particular went to DC, Baltimore, Philly, NJ, NYC, CT, and Boston. Besides Chicago, I know Blacks from MS, west TN, and the AR Delta went to Chicago, St. Louis, and some went out West during the second Great Migration wave, particularly from AR (as well as LA, TX, and OK).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkertinker
Baltimore by far. Chicago has really nothing southern going on about it. Perhaps historically its black population brought some of that. Chicago is pretty much two things. Midwestern and International, that's it.
Heck, it's a rarity to even hear a southern accent in Chicago. For like every 10,000 people you come across in the city maybe one will have a southern accent, haha.
Chicago accent with Black folk is pretty southern-ish...Locals pronounce the city name "Shi-ka-Go". They pronounce words like "All" by saying "awwl" or "yaawl". It's noticeable to someone from the East Coast. Baltimore has it's own thing for sure, but is still very East Coast in accent. It's 90 miles from Philly. The words that are questionable in Baltimore really have little to do with the South, "Tew", "Dew", "Yew", "Blew" etc. Anything past Cleveland to me has a Midwest twang to it, the accents are noticeable and stand out as having more twang than any states on the East Coast from the DC area northward. My cousins from Cincinnati sound country.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC's Finest
You kind of just answered your own question. Most of black Chicagoans are from the deep south vs most Baltimoreans being from the Carolinas. Mississippi "out-southerns" the Carolinas in every way, shape and form. Plus, black Chicagoans have a very distinct southern drawl. Black Baltimore has a few choice words that are southern (like dug = dog) but not across the board like Chicago. My ex GF from Chicago use to say, she was going to see her Deddie = Daddy.
Yep. You hit the nail on the head. Sounds just like my family in other Midwest cities. There is most definitely a serious twang or drawl to people in the Chi, Detroit, and Cincy from my experience. Or hear them say words like "Stay", "Pay" or "Anyway" and you will hear that southern speech come out.
I think it all boils down to certain words stem from certain influences in the respective cities can be attributed to Southern influence.
Outside of accent though, I really don't see Chicago being much more southern, Baltimore isn't THAT southern either honestly, but overall in culture it would be ahead of Chicago.
Well let's look at it this way. The Geechee/Gullah dialect is easily the most distinctive among the Black populations of both states. Is there more of a trace of that dialect within Baltimore's Black population or the Mississippi Delta dialects within Chicago's Black population?
When I hear Gullah/Geechee dialect to me it sounds like it could fit right in with other Carribbean nations and a mixture of how a lot of Black people talked from the late 1800s to early 1900s.
We know that Gullah/Geechee people talk the way the talk because staying on a Island away from the mainlands allowed them to preserve their culture a lot more than the mainland. I believe the same goes for Black people in the Caribbean’s. Also New Orleans/Louisiana unique history being under Spanish rule at one point allowed for more preservation with their language coming into America.
Now I believe our dialects started to change the more assimilated our communities were with the local White populations. I say that because you can hear differences from generation to generation. Take for instance this video with a Gullah Woman.
Now I believe the Jamaican/ Bahamian similarities are obvious. But also when I hear her talk it reminds me of the way these ex slaves talked in this recording. One was enslaved in Virginia and the other in Texas. It’s some striking similarities.
Now I believe just based off years of research that when we were first were brought to America and picked up on the English language that we all sounded like the Gullah/Geechee people. I say that because we know the bulk of our people came from West and Central Africa. There’s also words we use to this day that has roots in West/Central Africa and would later show up Charleston and New Orleans. The 2 cities that happen to be the biggest slaves port during that time period coincidentally. And later spread throughout the entire south and later throughout America because of the Great migration.
So Gullah/Geechee language is the closest we got to hearing how some of the 1st and 2nd generation Enslaved Africans here in America. I think New Orleans is the 2nd closest. And like I said earlier the more we started to assimilate into America the more varied our accents became. I think the European immigrants further influenced the evolution of Black dialects as well.
Like I said before the Black Baltimore accents has a more diverse Culturally historical influence than Chicago’s Black accent. Also Baltimore nonRhotic European American accent(similar to Philly) is a lot older than the White counterparts in Chicago so I believe there was less influence on the way Black Chicagoans talk when they migrated in droves to Chicago in comparison to Baltimore. Plus even though both are very segregated I believe Chicago has always been more segregated meaning less intermingling with White society and less influence on accents/dialect. Could be totally reaching with this last paragraph though.
When I hear Gullah/Geechee dialect to me it sounds like it could fit right in with other Carribbean nations and a mixture of how a lot of Black people talked from the late 1800s to early 1900s.
We know that Gullah/Geechee people talk the way the talk because staying on a Island away from the mainlands allowed them to preserve their culture a lot more than the mainland. I believe the same goes for Black people in the Caribbean’s. Also New Orleans/Louisiana unique history being under Spanish rule at one point allowed for more preservation with their language coming into America.
Now I believe our dialects started to change the more assimilated our communities were with the local White populations. I say that because you can hear differences from generation to generation. Take for instance this video with a Gullah Woman.
Now I believe the Jamaican/ Bahamian similarities are obvious. But also when I hear her talk it reminds me of the way these ex slaves talked in this recording. One was enslaved in Virginia and the other in Texas. It’s some striking similarities.
Now I believe just based off years of research that when we were first were brought to America and picked up on the English language that we all sounded like the Gullah/Geechee people. I say that because we know the bulk of our people came from West and Central Africa. There’s also words we use to this day that has roots in West/Central Africa and would later show up Charleston and New Orleans. The 2 cities that happen to be the biggest slaves port during that time period coincidentally. And later spread throughout the entire south and later throughout America because of the Great migration.
So Gullah/Geechee language is the closest we got to hearing how some of the 1st and 2nd generation Enslaved Africans here in America. I think New Orleans is the 2nd closest. And like I said earlier the more we started to assimilate into America the more varied our accents became. I think the European immigrants further influenced the evolution of Black dialects as well.
Like I said before the Black Baltimore accents has a more diverse Culturally historical influence than Chicago’s Black accent. Also Baltimore nonRhotic European American accent(similar to Philly) is a lot older than the White counterparts in Chicago so I believe there was less influence on the way Black Chicagoans talk when they migrated in droves to Chicago in comparison to Baltimore. Plus even though both are very segregated I believe Chicago has always been more segregated meaning less intermingling with White society and less influence on accents/dialect. Could be totally reaching with this last paragraph though.
Thought Baltimore accent was Rhotic.(don't drop R's) that is the White accent.
Spend a summer and a winter in both, and you'll quickly known which one is more like the South and which is more like the North from a climate perspective.
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