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Lol! I feel that Long Island also has New England vibes.
It used to be a part of Connecticut, no?
Long Island was never part of (that is, governed through/by) the Connecticut colonies (Hartford and New Haven), though there were a couple of handful of settlements made from them on it. (By contrast the southeast corner of what is now Connecticut was settled from Massachusetts and even governed by it for a few years.) Long Island was a place where Quakers and Anglicans who were at odds with the Congregationalist churches that dominated the Connecticut colonies could go and not be bothered too much by the latter. When the English finally ousted the Dutch from New York, it was the royal and therefore Anglican English who did so, and they had the sense to extend Dutch-like toleration to non-Anglicans.
There are spots on the distant North Shore and East End that still have traces of that colonial heritage. That only feels like New England compared to the miasma of development that otherwise dominates.
All in all, I would say NY and PA match up closer culturally. NYC is far bigger than Philly but they have a similar feel, Pittsburgh is like a combination of Buf/Roch, Albany is somewhat like Harrisburg, Syracuse is similar to Scranton. Geographically, I would say NE and NY probably have at least as much in common as NY and PA. The ocean coast line, the peaked mountains, the natural lakes
All in all, I would say NY and PA match up closer culturally. NYC is far bigger than Philly but they have a similar feel, Pittsburgh is like a combination of Buf/Roch, Albany is somewhat like Harrisburg, Syracuse is similar to Scranton. Geographically, I would say NE and NY probably have at least as much in common as NY and PA. The ocean coast line, the peaked mountains, the natural lakes
They are similar in terms of metro area population, but Syracuse is bigger as a city(and even metro), has different demographics and is a one city centered metro; while Scranton also has Wilkes Barre as another city center in that metro area.
Albany is a bit bigger than Harrisburg in terms of city proper and metro, but also has more of a multi centered metro as well.
All in all, I would say NY and PA match up closer culturally. NYC is far bigger than Philly but they have a similar feel, Pittsburgh is like a combination of Buf/Roch, Albany is somewhat like Harrisburg, Syracuse is similar to Scranton. Geographically, I would say NE and NY probably have at least as much in common as NY and PA. The ocean coast line, the peaked mountains, the natural lakes
Agree with most of what you wrote, but disagree with this one. Syracuse has a major university, murre diverse demographics, more urban and modern feel. Scranton is more rural, has an old industrial look and feel, and less diverse.
Which teams are these? I follow sports and from my experience every east coast team is anti-Boston.
This is new to me.
Well, since only two of Philadelphia's Big Four major-league sports teams play Boston routinely during the regular season (Sixers-Celtics and Flyers-Bruins), there's not a lot of anti-Boston antipathy among Philly sports fans unless the Eagles meet the Patriots in the postseason. Phillies-Red Sox in the World Series wouldn't generate as much animosity as Phillies-Yankees would, since just about everyone outside New York hates the Yankees.
(I'm glad that MLS seems to have taken hold as a solid, stable major soccer league with a strong fan base, but if there's a rivalry between the Union and the Revolution, it doesn't seem to register on the seismometers.)
The Mets, I think, just don't generate the level of hostility the Yankees do among non-New Yorkers. Nor do the Giants, though there is a rivalry there with the Iggles. And basketball and hockey don't seem to me to generate rivalries of the intensity of those in baseball or football.
But enough about sports. Someone upthread compared New York's and Pennsylvania's northern tiers. IMO the more appropriate comparison is between the adjacent areas, Pennsylvania's Northern Tier and New York's Southern Tier. The latter is more populous than the former — Binghamton's in the Southern Tier, and the highway through it is an Interstate (that briefly dips into Pennsylvania) while the one through the Northern Tier is a mostly two-lane US highway — but both have that heavily forested, mountainous quality about them, and I don't get that same vibe in most of what I guess would be New York's northern tier. (Though the real north country in New York State is the Adirondacks, which are...mountainous and heavily forested.)
I'd also say that New York is more like Pennsylvania than it is like New England. Both have two large cities at opposite ends of the state, and while New York dwarfs Buffalo while Philadelphia merely laps Pittsburgh, in both cases the two cities serve as anchors of vastly different regions within each state. In between the two are lots of mountains (more of them in PA than in NY, but plenty in both) and some amazingly productive farmland (New York State Cheddar is among the best in the country), with smaller, often faded industrial cities scattered throughout this territory (though Rochester and Syracuse are both more sizable than any of the cities in this category in Pennsylvania save Allentown, Bethlehem and Erie, unless you count Scranton and Wilkes-Barre as two halves of a single whole much as one might lump Schenectady and Troy in with Albany. Actually, having overlooked the Lehigh Valley conurbation (Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, which seems to be attracting New Yorkers in much the way Philadelphia is, only the ones heading to the Lehigh Valley are largely Hispanic immigrants) when I first wrote this, maybe the two constellations of cities in between are roughly equal.
Pennsylvania and New York are the only two states that bridge East Coast, Rust Belt, and Great Lakes character any significant fashion. That makes a huge difference matching their overall composition.
There's also significantly more German and Eastern European heritage in both states compared to anywhere in New England.
There's also significantly more German and Eastern European heritage in both states compared to anywhere in New England.
German and Dutch, yes definitely. But Eastern European? Are New York State and PA so much more Polish, Greek, Russian, etc than New England?
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone
Agree with most of what you wrote, but disagree with this one. Syracuse has a major university, murre diverse demographics, more urban and modern feel. Scranton is more rural, has an old industrial look and feel, and less diverse.
It’s a big stretch matching these 2 cities.
Syracuse seems like it would match better with New Haven, though perhaps Allentown could be a good comp too?
Long Island was never part of (that is, governed through/by) the Connecticut colonies (Hartford and New Haven), though there were a couple of handful of settlements made from them on it. (By contrast the southeast corner of what is now Connecticut was settled from Massachusetts and even governed by it for a few years.) Long Island was a place where Quakers and Anglicans who were at odds with the Congregationalist churches that dominated the Connecticut colonies could go and not be bothered too much by the latter. When the English finally ousted the Dutch from New York, it was the royal and therefore Anglican English who did so, and they had the sense to extend Dutch-like toleration to non-Anglicans.
There are spots on the distant North Shore and East End that still have traces of that colonial heritage. That only feels like New England compared to the miasma of development that otherwise dominates.
Actually, I am not sure if that is true, Suffolk WAS part of Connecticut for a while. The real debate is for parts of what is now Nassau, Queens and Brooklyn where there were some English settlements mixed in with the Dutch.
The current boundary between Nassau and Suffolk closely follows the boundary that was set up New Netherland (future New York) and the New England Confederation (Connecticut) that divided Long Island in the Treaty of Hartford in 1650. That is Nassau, Queens and Brooklyn would be part of New Netherland while Suffolk would be part of Connecticut.
But the treaty was never ratified in London (which did not want to recognize the legality of the Dutch colony) and when New Netherland was conquered, the Duke of York was granted all of Long Island - indeed all the islands along the coast, including Staten Island and for a time - Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard
It is confusing because some of the Suffolk Towns were considered part of New England even before 1650 and even continued to do so after the establishment of New York. Basically, it took a while for New York to take control of Long Island. Southampton for instance joined the "Confederacy of Hartford" in 1644 and then the "its allegiance was transferred to Connecticut after the union of the New Haven and Hartford Commonwealths in 1662".
Fairfield county is New England cultured? Feels like another Long Island to
Me.
Fairfield County includes places like New Fairfield, Brookfield, and Newtown. You might have heard of Newtown in the news recently. The subway doesn’t go there. LOL. Not all of Fairfield County is the Connecticut Turnpike and the New Haven branch of Metro North.
Many years ago, my first job out of college was in Danbury CT. I did a campus recruiting trip at what was then the Polytechnic Institute of NY in Brooklyn. I had someone ask me if the subway went to Danbury. And Upstate New York isn’t White Plains.
I’ve skied at Whiteface a number of times. The Daks feel like northern New England. I think the western half of NY has more in common with Pennsylvania. By land area, I’d call it a tie.
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