Massachusetts vs Missouri (Phoenix, living, cost, state)
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My parents were aspirational middle-middle class, not upper-middle-class, though I had among my friends the two daughters of a Jackson County Circuit Court judge who lived in Sheridan Estates, the upper-middle-class Black 1960s subdivision overlooking the Blue River valley. But had you met me when I was at Harvard, I would have sounded like that guy.
In fact, I have yet to meet a KC expat on this coast (and there are actually a pretty good number of us, from Calvin Trillin on down) who doesn't love the place to death, even if they will never live there again. That certainly describes me: I haven't lived in KC since 1976, and I'm both proud of my forever hometown and proud to call myself "a forever Kansas Citian and an adopted Philadelphian."
Having been to Providence, I'd say the parallel with that city is apt. But I haven't yet run across a city in the Northeast that has a vast swath of it that's been completely emptied out, or almost completely so, and has reverted to prairie (with streets) as a result. Both St. Louis and Kansas City have such a district, and in both cases, the emptied-out section is on the Black side of the city. I hope both cities can succeed at repopulating these districts down the road, and I've seen some signs that this is beginning to happen in KC.
See above for my hopes for both St. Louis' and Kansas City's empty quarters. To borrow a phrase from the President's election campaign, I hope both cities "build back better."
As far as caps on Kansas City's downtown freeway loop are concerned: Of course, the leg of the loop that's best suited for capping is the south leg — I-670, which runs in a trench in the middle of Truman Road (15th Street). But there's also been talk of completely removing the city's oldest freeway — the Sixth Street Expressway (I-70/US 24/US 40), the north leg of the loop. That road, opened in 1955, features a tangle of on- and off-ramps that caused so many conflicting moves that some of the exits and entrances were closed at the evening peak. But since it doesn't run in a trench but rather in a grass-lined bowl, it's not amenable to capping. Were this freeway to disappear, its route would most likely become a linear park.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but Missouri is one of those red states with blue cities (save for Springfield, which is the biggest city in the Ozarks). I was quite pleased when The Kansas City Star called for Hawley to resign, saying he "has blood on his hands," and I was even more pleased (and frankly surprised) when the man who launched the GOP's rise in Missouri, former Sen. John Danforth, told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that backing Hawley's rise was "the biggest mistake I've made in my life."
But there remain too many blind Republicans in Missouri for the thing you and I agree should happen to happen. And the additional shame is that he unseated a pretty decent Democrat, Claire McCaskill.
Something I need to point out here about mass transit:
The money that covers the operating deficits comes from state and local taxes. The federal government provides no support for mass transit operations — only capital expenditures (buying new buses, building and repairing rail lines, that sort of thing). So if anything, Missourians — or perhaps more accurately, St. Louisans and Kansas Citians — are willing to pay for mass transit (to a point in KC: city voters approved a ballot measure in 2016 that forbade the city from providing any support to a rail transit construction project unless voters citywide approved it). KC's Main Street streetcar line, which is free to ride, is funded by sales and property tax surgharges in a district that extends half a mile from the line on either side of it. The vote that greenlighted its extension southward to the Country Club Plaza and UMKC expands this district to extend from the state line on the west to Troost on the east, as far south as 55th Street.
And ICYMI, in the fall of 2019, new Kansas City Mayor Quinton Lucas announced that all mass transit citywide would be free to ride by the next year. I don't know whether that's actually been implemented yet, though. But since, as you noted, fares cover only 11 percent of the Kansas City Area Transportation Authority's operating budget, it shouldn't cost all that much money to implement this.
One more thing, since it was mentioned upthread: I'm not aware that President Biden has a plan for universal health insurance that differs much from the one that got implemented when he was Vice President. And the Affordable Care Act was directly modeled on the plan Gov. Mitt Romney implemented, then later disavowed, in Massachusetts. How is "RomneyCare" working these days, anyway?
What is the economic driver where Kansas City would ever build back? I am not aware of anything there that is globally competitive in the 21st century economy. St. Louis has the good university. US News has Washington University at #16. One below Vanderbilt and that anchors Nashville.
My parents were aspirational middle-middle class, not upper-middle-class, though I had among my friends the two daughters of a Jackson County Circuit Court judge who lived in Sheridan Estates, the upper-middle-class Black 1960s subdivision overlooking the Blue River valley. But had you met me when I was at Harvard, I would have sounded like that guy.
In fact, I have yet to meet a KC expat on this coast (and there are actually a pretty good number of us, from Calvin Trillin on down) who doesn't love the place to death, even if they will never live there again. That certainly describes me: I haven't lived in KC since 1976, and I'm both proud of my forever hometown and proud to call myself "a forever Kansas Citian and an adopted Philadelphian."
Having been to Providence, I'd say the parallel with that city is apt. But I haven't yet run across a city in the Northeast that has a vast swath of it that's been completely emptied out, or almost completely so, and has reverted to prairie (with streets) as a result. Both St. Louis and Kansas City have such a district, and in both cases, the emptied-out section is on the Black side of the city. I hope both cities can succeed at repopulating these districts down the road, and I've seen some signs that this is beginning to happen in KC.
A few weeks ago I bought a bedroom set from a KC transplant. We talked about KC (it was actually the last place I flew to prior to the pandemic in mid-March of last year) and he literally got teary-eyed talking about how much he missed it. My family there (originally from the Providence area) have been there for over a decade and talk about it with the pride of people who have lived there for generations.
Some of that urban prairie is in areas that seem like they're too ideally located to remain prairie forever as the city continues to build out. I'm hopeful, anyway.
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Originally Posted by GeoffD
What is the economic driver where Kansas City would ever build back? I am not aware of anything there that is globally competitive in the 21st century economy. St. Louis has the good university. US News has Washington University at #16. One below Vanderbilt and that anchors Nashville.
Cerner? It's a big player in health information technology and is the largest non-government employer in the city. I believe there are some 13,000+(and growing) employed by Cerner in KC. That's a pretty big pool of talented, educated employees concentrated in one place and has to be appealing to startups and other industry players. KU is also only 45 minutes away, but it doesn't have a major university right in the city.
A few weeks ago I bought a bedroom set from a KC transplant. We talked about KC (it was actually the last place I flew to prior to the pandemic in mid-March of last year) and he literally got teary-eyed talking about how much he missed it. My family there (originally from the Providence area) have been there for over a decade and talk about it with the pride of people who have lived there for generations.
Some of that urban prairie is in areas that seem like they're too ideally located to remain prairie forever as the city continues to build out. I'm hopeful, anyway.
Cerner? It's a big player in health information technology and is the largest non-government employer in the city. I believe there are some 13,000+(and growing) employed by Cerner in KC. That's a pretty big pool of talented, educated employees concentrated in one place and has to be appealing to startups and other industry players. KU is also only 45 minutes away, but it doesn't have a major university right in the city.
Another Providence/KC connection! Do your folks ever draw parallels between or compare and contrast the two?
The heart of KC's old black community is indeed very close to downtown, and the business district around 18th and Vine survives nearly intact (though when I visited the jazz and Negro League baseball museums in 2016, some of the Potemkin-village false fronts erected for the shooting of Robert Altman's film "Kansas City" (released 20 years earlier) were still in place).
But not only Troost Avenue but also Bruce Watkins Drive separate the historic black business district from the Crossroads. One is a real physical barrier, the other a psychological one. Both, IMO, impede major revitalization of this area. But I've heard stories to the effect that the "Troost Wall" is beginning to crumble.
As for the University of Kansas, Douglas County (Lawrence) is now part of the Kansas City CSA, as its outskirts and northern Johnson County have been growing towards each other for a while. And KU's medical school and teaching hospital are in Kansas City — the University of Kansas Hospitals are the best healthcare institutions in the Central Plains (St. Louis is not part of that region). One of my Pem-Day classmates lived in Lawrence, and that was back in the 1970s.
And I believe the Federal Government remains the region's largest employer: Kansas City was one of the biggest Federal "branch plants" in the country when I was a lad, and I don't think that's changed much, if at all, since. It's also home to one of the 12 Federal Reserve Banks (Missouri is the only state with two of them).
Another Providence/KC connection! Do your folks ever draw parallels between or compare and contrast the two?
The heart of KC's old black community is indeed very close to downtown, and the business district around 18th and Vine survives nearly intact (though when I visited the jazz and Negro League baseball museums in 2016, some of the Potemkin-village false fronts erected for the shooting of Robert Altman's film "Kansas City" (released 20 years earlier) were still in place).
But not only Troost Avenue but also Bruce Watkins Drive separate the historic black business district from the Crossroads. One is a real physical barrier, the other a psychological one. Both, IMO, impede major revitalization of this area. But I've heard stories to the effect that the "Troost Wall" is beginning to crumble.
As for the University of Kansas, Douglas County (Lawrence) is now part of the Kansas City CSA, as its outskirts and northern Johnson County have been growing towards each other for a while. And KU's medical school and teaching hospital are in Kansas City — the University of Kansas Hospitals are the best healthcare institutions in the Central Plains (St. Louis is not part of that region). One of my Pem-Day classmates lived in Lawrence, and that was back in the 1970s.
And I believe the Federal Government remains the region's largest employer: Kansas City was one of the biggest Federal "branch plants" in the country when I was a lad, and I don't think that's changed much, if at all, since. It's also home to one of the 12 Federal Reserve Banks (Missouri is the only state with two of them).
Oh they absolutely do. I lived in PVD for a while so when we were out that way visiting in March, we spent a good deal of time comparing the two. My uncle has lived all over the country and world (He's retired, but was an Army lifer), but grew up in Providence and feels KC offers much of the best of what he loved about Providence without the New England cost of living. They're obviously very different places, but the parallels are tough to ignore.
I've spent a good chunk of time over in 19th & Vine. I'm a huge baseball fan, so I've made multiple trips to the Negro League Baseball Museum, and I can't go to KC without a stop at Bryant's. It's definitely an active and enjoyable area to walk around. I hadn't heard of the Troost Wall before visiting, so I'm admittedly not particularly knowledgeable on how it has evolved, but the sentiment from family/friends in the area echoes what you've heard. I hope it continues.
My girlfriend's brother (my other close KC connection) could see the "University of Kansas Hospital" illuminated sign from his living room. It's a presence in the area, and many of his neighbors worked there. I knew the federal government was a big employer (biggest makes sense), but my girlfriend's brother worked for Cerner (we visited one of the campuses) and when we visited with some of his coworkers, they've definitely been spoon fed that they're one of the largest in the city and still growing. The city itself is apparently one of the big draws for employees who want a big city experience without SF,NYC,Boston,DC,LA, etc. prices. I think it's a strong building block for continued growth.
My girlfriend's brother (my other close KC connection) could see the "University of Kansas Hospital" illuminated sign from his living room. It's a presence in the area, and many of his neighbors worked there. I knew the federal government was a big employer (biggest makes sense), but my girlfriend's brother worked for Cerner (we visited one of the campuses) and when we visited with some of his coworkers, they've definitely been spoon fed that they're one of the largest in the city and still growing. The city itself is apparently one of the big draws for employees who want a big city experience without SF,NYC,Boston,DC,LA, etc. prices. I think it's a strong building block for continued growth.
I'll bet that Cerner uses Kansas City as a selling point for would-be employees the way Target Corporation uses Minneapolis as one.
KC did just recently lose the headquarters of one Fortune 500 company: Sprint Corporation, which got swallowed by T-Mobile.
It's also home to two other well-known names: Hallmark Cards and Russell Stover Candies. The former, however, is owned lock, stock and barrel by the founding family (which has sent every one of its sons to Pem-Day and now Pembroke Hill), while the family that owned Russell Stover (one of whose sons was in my class at Pem-Day) sold the company to Swiss chocolatier Lindt about five years ago. The candy boxes still give the company's address as "4900 Oak Street, Kansas City, MO 64112", though, which suggests to me that Lindt runs Russell Stover as a freestanding subsidiary much like A-B InBev and Duvel run the craft breweries they own. (Duvel bought Boulevard Brewing Company ["Kansas City's Hometown Beer since 1989"] in 2018.). But between Hallmark and Russell Stover, I maintain that Kansas City owns Valentine's Day.
Kansas City has never been associated with a particular industry or industries — not even meatpacking in its heyday. It's always been a branch-office rather than a headquarters city. (Ford Motor Company built its first branch assembly plant outside Detroit in KC in 1912, for instance, and for many years KC produced more cars and trucks than any other US city save Detroit.) So I wouldn't worry that the absence of a high-flying growth sector in its economy would doom the city to irrelevance in the long run.
Cerner? It's a big player in health information technology and is the largest non-government employer in the city. I believe there are some 13,000+(and growing) employed by Cerner in KC. That's a pretty big pool of talented, educated employees concentrated in one place and has to be appealing to startups and other industry players. KU is also only 45 minutes away, but it doesn't have a major university right in the city.
I thought Cerner was going in the wrong direction? Market share loss to Epic. Layoffs. Declining revenue. Lawsuits about buggy software costing hospitals millions. Not my area. Maybe they’ve turned it around.
Oh they absolutely do. I lived in PVD for a while so when we were out that way visiting in March, we spent a good deal of time comparing the two. My uncle has lived all over the country and world (He's retired, but was an Army lifer), but grew up in Providence and feels KC offers much of the best of what he loved about Providence without the New England cost of living. They're obviously very different places, but the parallels are tough to ignore.
This weird thought just popped into my head:
There's a bar/restaurant/concert venue in the Crossroads, about two blocks to the east of the original Kansas City Star offices, called Grinders that has "Original Philly" cheesesteaks on its menu and this legend right under the section header:
"Voted Best Cheesesteak West of the Mississippi"
I didn't order one on my first visit there, observing my rule that says that any place that says it serves a "Philly cheesesteak" doesn't, but I did ask the waitress what made theirs exceptional, and she told me that they had the rolls flown in daily from Amoroso Baking Company.
That's a double good sign: First, they understood that the bread is as important as the meat, and second, they turned to one of the best and largest bakers of rolls in Philly for their bread.
So I ordered one on my next visit. So did a Philly-born-and-bred traveling companion, who said it really was that good. I agree.
I tell you all this to get to this recommendation:
Your folks should recruit one of their hometown friends to come to Kansas City and set up an "Olneyville New York System" hot dog stand. That's a uniquely Providential street food item that I think has the potential to travel well.
I'll bet that Cerner uses Kansas City as a selling point for would-be employees the way Target Corporation uses Minneapolis as one.
So I decided to visit the Cerner website and see for myself.
Cerner is different from Target in that it has major office "campuses" in several cities worldwide: in addition to its four Kansas City locations, it has a campus in the Philadelphia suburb of Malvern, its other main North American facility, for instance. But when you drill down to Kansas City, here's what Cerner has to say about itself:
Quote:
This is where Cerner began. And where innovation has no end. We have gone all-in on the future, which is evident in the resources we use to enhance the quality of our settings and the results of our work. Since originating in this inspiring metropolis, our influence and impact have expanded outward to be felt by many lives in many places around the globe.
The Kansas City metro area is a dynamic interchange for culture, a place where the best things in life converge. Within one of the nation’s most populous metro areas, which is home to millions of people, you will find innovative technology. Bustling commerce. Compelling artistic endeavors. A vibrant, family-friendly community. Generous philanthropy. Outstanding athletics, recreation and nightlife.
Full of friendly people from just about everywhere, Kansas City has more than a little something for everyone.
Yep, sounds very Kansas Citian to this forever Kansas Citian.
I thought so. How does this happen, and how can MA choose to give less to or get more from the feds?
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Originally Posted by btownboss4
It’s literally just Massachusetts is way wealthier so pays way more in income tax. And has way less federal highways per capita.
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Originally Posted by btownboss4
No. Because it’s used more per capita. The MBTA is only like 57% State/Federally Funded and 43% fares. KC is 89% Govt funded, St Louis is like 85% Givt funded. Plus the difference is population density is so large that each Missourian is responsible for like 7x more freeway than a Bay Stater.
The vast majority is the fact the average Massachusetts household make about 35k extra dollars per year compared to Missourians. So are taxed a lot more.
Much of this stems from the 16th amendment which allows the federal government to levy income taxes and has the explicit stipulation that the funds raised do not need to be spent proportional to where it was raised. Obviously, this was purpose built to have the ability to do some wealth transfer and essentially provide state welfare for poorer, less economically favorable states, but the problem is that it seems to be going way too far where it actually negatively impacts the successful states and cities where there is dire need of infrastructure improvements and where the cost-of-living has gotten extremely high.
Part of the solution to this, and which came in with the 16th amendment but not explicitly stated in such, are SALT deductions so that wealthier states still have some ability to raise state and municipal taxes without completely quashing people, but it's still not a great system and one that almost collapsed with nothing to replace it under the previous federal administration which tried to remove it without any plan for something to take its place.
On a more macro viewpoint, I think it also subsidizes a lot of bad policy in certain states that allow them to remain economically backwards. This is a bit like the arguments and back and forth about social welfare spending vis-a-vis trying to set people up for success and offering opportunities, but meanwhile still trying to foster an idea of good practice and personal responsibility though it's on a state level. There is a good argument for some level of help, but I think among the most galling things about this aside from the sheer magnitude of the wealth transfer (which I think is truly excessive when NY, MA, CT, and NJ definitely have things they desperately need funded) is the ****tiness of some of these recipient state politician and commentators who run their mouths about these donor states policies and mock the high state taxes they've had to levy while with that same mouth they're clamping hard on the teats of those same donor states. My nipples are sore and you're goddamn yelling at me?! Ugh.
At least Target is actually committed to the "city" and have a very vested interested in downtown Minneapolis. Cerner and their far flung KC metro office parks? Not so much.
Which is what I think is one of KC's biggest problems is. It has a massive lack of corporate pride in the actual city. KC is already lacking in HQ locations. As MarketStEl said, it's become more of a regional HQ town. But the few regional and world HQ it has are generally not all that interested in the city. Hallmark being the one true exception, but that company is way past its prime now.
Having said all that, KC has a very diverse economy and I think that's the main reason its able to stay above water compared to places like St Loius or Cleveland. But those bars are not very high.
KC is a great city. I just don't think it will ever be able to overcome the state line issue (unable to act as one metro with common goals) and the fact that the metro is in two very red states that don't care about it.
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