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What? Of course FL has history going WAY back from the 1960s! FL had thriving cotton plantations like its surrounding states in the 19th century. FL was one of the states that seceded from the Union to become part of the Confederacy at the beginning of the Civil War. Pensacola, Jacksonville and Tampa were important ports back to the 19th century. Tampa was the center of US cigar manufacturing in the late 19th/early 20th century, etc., etc....
And why is FL's alleged lack of history enough to dismiss all of the history of the rest of the Southeast?
All that, and you left out the oldest European settlement in the United States, St. Augustine (founded by the Spaniards in 1565)?
Regarding medicine, the University of Pennsylvania (private Ivy League institution), whose medical school is the nation's oldest, trained the South's doctors prior to the Civil War. Johns Hopkins in Baltimore didn't really rise to prominence in this field until the early 20th century, and Duke even later.
I think that in many respects, the South's longtime reliance on a plantation economy that was partially supplanted by things like textile mills in search of cheaper labor has hobbled it on things like innovation and creativity that contribute so much to economic growth, but parts of it (most prominently the Research Triangle but also the Atlanta area and parts of Florida and Tennessee) are playing an impressive game of catch-up.
My picks:
COL: Southeast
QOL: Tossup. If you're an urbanophile like me, Northeast. If you prefer country or coastal living, Southeast.
Culture: Northeast
Economy: Northeast but not by much
Character and Charm: Tie. Charleston and Savannah by themselves just about balance the scales with all the charm of New England, which IMO is the most charming part of the Northeast. But you can find pockets of charm all over the Northeast, including in some surprising places like Princeton, NJ, while much of the South outside those two cities and Virginia isn't all that charming IMO.
Transit: Northeast, but Atlanta and Charlotte get an A for effort
Transportation (roads, etc): Tie. The Northeast is better supplied with highways, but the highways in the South are in better condition for the most part.
Cities: Northeast
Suburbs: Northeast
Downtowns: Northeast
Higher Education: Northeast (I'll have more to say on this below)
Schools (K - 12): Northeast
Climate: Southeast. However, I also like winter, which appears to make me something of a freak among people on this forum and in the general population
History: Northeast. The Southeast is only now getting around to correcting the false history it told itself for most of the past 150 years.
Favorite thing about the Southeast: Cuisine, especially Louisiana's
Favorite thing about the Northeast: Urbanity, history and the colorful ethnic enclaves found in most Northeastern cities
Least favorite thing about the Southeast: The cultural (and their theocratic variety of political) conservatism of the Judgmentalist Christians (not that there aren't any of these in the Northeast; they are just more influential down South)
Least favorite thing about the Northeast: It's expensive, though Philadelphia is relatively affordable
Winner: Northeast
Now, about higher education: I think I see the point Huckleberry Knob, whose posts appear to have been deleted from this thread, was trying to make about public vs. private universities, but what I think he overlooks is: Outstanding national-level private colleges and universities are engines of regional growth because they import students from all over, and many of those students stick around after they graduate (massachoicetts: I might still be a Bostonian today had I not met a Philadelphian who fell in love with me, then decided I should move here rather than he there because I wasn't interested enough in his career). The South has a handful of these schools: Duke, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Emory, Miami, Tulane, Suwanee (the University of the South), and a few others. The Northeast has bushel baskets full of them (btw, there are eight schools in the Ivy League, including one that many confuse for a state school because of its name).
The public universities are indeed assets to their states, but only a handful of them draw many students from beyond their borders who willingly pay out-of-state tuition in order to take advantage of what they perceive to be their superior assets (and even out-of-state tuition at these schools is usually less than private-college tuition). The University of California, Berkeley, is the top dog here; UNC, UVa and William and Mary are perhaps the best-known such schools in the South, while Penn State is probably the preeminent such Northeastern school. (And I assure you that public universities recruit beyond their borders: I got recruitment materials from Temple and Tennessee State when I was in high school.)
One more comment, this one about poverty: I live in the poorest of the nation's 10 biggest cities, so I've seen plenty of beat-up poor city neighborhoods. I'd still take those over the rural poverty of much of the South.
For me personally, the NE wins out, although I do enjoy some of the metro areas in the South. Raleigh-Durham, Charlotte, and Atlanta cities and immediate suburbs are nice. The problem is, I am not a fan of the South once you get far outside of the immediate major city limits.
NYC, Boston, Philly are great big cities with nice suburbs. I’ve also really liked parts of New England and places like Upstate New York, even outside of major cities. So I would prefer the Northeast over the Southeast, overall.
COL: On average, Southeast
QOL: Varies widely in both areas
Culture: High Culture? Northeast. Preferred style of culture? Subjective. I like elements of both but probably Northeast more.
Economy: Northeast overall.
Character and Charm: Northeast
Transit: Northeast
Transportation (roads, etc): Southeast
Cities: Northeast
Suburbs: Southeast
Downtowns: Northeast
Higher Education: Northeast
Schools (K - 12): Northeast
Climate: For me, Northeast. Subjective.
History: Northeast
Favorite thing about the Southeast: Low COL
Favorite thing about the Northeast: Impressive urban environments
Least favorite thing about the Southeast:Flatness (as a pct., and where I am at least)
Least favorite thing about the Northeast: Expensive
Winner: Northeast for me.
It’s funny you say that Richmond feels like Solid Southern, or that Maryland and Delaware are borderline. Perhaps a deeper visit would yield some surprise, but honestly, coming from FL at least, on a scale of AL or SC to PA and NY, I’d say both states have more in common feel wise with the ladder than the former. Same energy for Richmond. It’s established, and while Charleston is established too, it also feels much more economically linked to DC than it does to Raleigh.
It’s funny you say that Richmond feels like Solid Southern, or that Maryland and Delaware are borderline. Perhaps a deeper visit would yield some surprise, but honestly, coming from FL at least, on a scale of AL or SC to PA and NY, I’d say both states have more in common feel wise with the ladder than the former. Same energy for Richmond. It’s established, and while Charleston is established too, it also feels much more economically linked to DC than it does to Raleigh.
Yeah I agree. If you actually spent a good amount of time in Virginia, Maryland, and Delaware you would realize that they are without a doubt in the same region. The only outlier is that the southside of Virginia has a lot more in common with the North Carolina Piedmont region. This region along with the southern appalachian influence may make Virginia seem more southern to some people, but the area where the majority of people in the state live is more similar to Maryland and Delaware. So I don't think there is any point in dividing these states into separate regions.
Yeah, you’re probably right though. I grew up in upstate NY so my idea of a suburb is like Delmar, NY (which is actually pretty nice so idk what I’m talking about really lol).
I was looking around Google Maps at “suburbs” of Boston and they looked a little run down IMO so maybe that’s why I said that). I think it was Framingham in particular that looked meh to me.
I’ve and have been exploring the North East my whole life basically (still haven’t even scratched the surface as I’m only in my mid-twenties). However, I went to Charlottesville, VA (which is basically a suburb of D.C., no?) last year and their downtown and strips of stores, were just so clean looking.
Keep in mind that Charlottesville is a something of a "bubble" as a large college town (UVA).
It's generally true that you'll find "newer" development in much of the South compared to the Northeast given their relative growth periods. But you will also find far fewer substantially urban and well-planned cities.
Frankly, I find "master-planned" communities with endless tract housing, which are common in the South, quite depressing. Give me slow-growth organic communities any day, grit at all.
Food is definitely southeast. They do it right there
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