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The Twin Cities, Minnesota I think. Cleanest of the ones mentioned here anyway. Atlanta is pretty clean and kept up relatively speaking.
Is St. Louis or Kansas City in the North? LOL. In the SouthWest, it would be Dallas.
There's a lot more to this exercise than just 'clean'.
The Twin Cities have decent growth and fit some of the criteria, but the cultural hub part doesn't quite get there.
I'm from the south. Kansas City and St. Louis was as northern as anything else to us. They're midwestern like Chicago, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Cincinnati, etc.
Northern enough, but neither would win this argument anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 585WNY
Atlanta, GA is a powerhouse of a city, arguably the de facto capital of the New South. This ever-growing (and expanding) heavily forested metro is a nationally prominent center for media, film production, music and sports, as well as a regional player in healthcare, logistics and finance. Also important is Atlanta’s position as a cultural hub for Black culture and success. It’s an all around southern city and a very special place.
But what would be the Atlanta-equivalent in the Northern U.S.?
A few cities come to mind (see poll) as possible contenders due to economic, demographic, cultural, topographical and/or developmental reasons. Considering them all, which northern metro would you say is the closest to Atlanta?
Of course they're not culturally similar, but Chicago closest played that role in the north. Plenty of good arguments as to why have been given already.
It's no longer "ever-growing and expanding", but it was once upon a time.
And it's clean.
As for Atlanta's impact on culture, we're at a different time now with more diverse tastes.
I looked up 'Atlanta culture' and didn't recognize hardly anything mentioned from the modern times other than a few movies made there.
Whatever 'sound' Atlanta is supposed to be known for isn't as universally known now as other city's contributions in the past.
Yes, I know that. But the point I was trying to make is that, unlike most of the Big Ten (save Michigan), NW being "quasi Ivy" in many fields, draws from a much more diverse national and international global student population. Many people from NYC, California, and International go to Northwestern and many end up staying in the city, for Big Law or Finance/Consulting if they are MBA or Law Grads (for which NW is a Top 10 school). Therefore NW is contributing more to more diverse/global workforce and residents rather than the stereotypical "Big Ten/Midwest Bro Culture" that the poster I replied to was getting at. That is the point being made.
Chicago is an even better school than Northwestern, and many of those grads likewise stay in Chicago. But we are talking about a relatively small fraction of all college grads in Chicago and an even smaller fraction of all Chicagoans. And frankly many people do take their excellent degrees from Northwestern and Chicago and go to the coasts where there is more prestige and and money. I don't think I'd call Chicago's problem a brain drain, because that's not really what's going on. But certainly the city loses the best talent and economic energy to the coasts. That's been happening for a very, very long time.
I found the data for Northwestern and it seems that 46% of all working recent grads live in Illinois (the vast majority surely in Chicago). Sixteen percent are in the NYC tri-state and 13% are in California. So certainly there are Northwestern grads who do stay in town, but in most big state universities the number of new grads staying in state tends to be more like 2/3 to 3/4. So clearly having a Ivy-esque pedigree opens up the whole country to grads, and most people take advantage of that.
Last edited by ForeignCrunch; 05-26-2022 at 09:41 AM..
Black Chicagoans have a huge range in accents. It is because it is in the North. There are many Black Chicagoans without a trace/hint of southern accent. There are some with a deep southern accent. It is because Chicago is in the North which is why there are many who have no southern accent.
There are some black people across the U.S that sound more neutral regardless if you're talking about Chicago, Atlanta and the South but we all know the know the most common Chicago black accent sounds like Lil Durk, Chief Keef, Lil Bibby, King Von, Twista, R.Kelly, Corey Holcomb etc who all sound very southern and closer to the common Atlanta black accent.
A few very southern sounding Chicago black accents
There are some black people across the U.S that sound more neutral regardless if you're talking about Chicago, Atlanta and the South but we all know the know the most common Chicago black accent sounds like Lil Durk, Chief Keef, Lil Bibby, King Von, Twista, R.Kelly, Corey Holcomb etc who all sound very southern and closer to the common Atlanta black accent.
A few very southern sounding Chicago black accents
You are not countering anything I didn’t already say. I said there are many blacks in Chicago who have southern accents, but many who don’t. Even in your own video below where you point out the 35 second mark; skimming through the video, there are many accents I hear that are not very southern. There is a range, which is the point I was making.
You are not countering anything I didn’t already say. I said there are many blacks in Chicago who have southern accents, but many who don’t. Even in your own video below where you point out the 35 second mark; skimming through the video, there are many accents I hear that are not very southern. There is a range, which is the point I was making.
It was kinda just one point of the essay, which was more focused on the particular school and why I was interested. Talking about the impact that they have on the community and development of the city.
The differences I talked about was the pretty obvious one. Boston is well established to the point that development of any kind is significantly burdened (putting it tactfully..) whereas Atlanta has hit its stride more recently, fully embraces growth and has ample space to work with.
Culturally they are dead opposites. Atlanta is a nighttime city, Boston is a daytime city. The settings of the city plays a part in this. Atlanta is located on the extreme western edge of the Eastern Time Zone whereas Boston is several hundred miles east in the same time zone. The sun rises and sets here later than in Boston for the vast majority of the year. Usually around an hour later on each end, but it varies because of differences in latitude. Being an inland city, the day takes longer to warm up(and of course tends to warm up more than up north) but the warmest parts of the day in Atlanta are several hours later in the day than Boston, it's often coldest at 8am and as warm at midnight as it is in the early afternoon. Unlike Boston which typically warms up faster during the day and cools off earlier in the night. Atlanta is a car-city and no one even pretends to care about transit. Luxury cars are absolutely status symbols here unlike anything I've seen anywhere in New England.
The pace here is work smart play hard. Grind if you have to but make it look like light work. Embrace and elevate lesiure, and do it right here in the city of Atlanta. Boston is work hard play somewhere else (Cape, Islands, Mountains, NYC, literally anywhere except where you live). Working hard is a point of pride in Boston in a way that doesn't exist here. Atlantans are more impressed by working smart, making the right moves to float to the top relatively less impressed with how many hours you put in to get there.
Boston embraces its early history as a huge aspect of its identity. Atlanta is understandably squeamish about it's history prior to civil rights. The way it is branded, you might think that the city was founded in 1944 when Primus King was denied his right to vote (100 miles away from Atlanta, but close enough for the origin story) setting off the chain of events that led to the end of the white primary in Georgia by 1946. From there it's an epic chain of victories for the good guys, by the 60s became the city TOO BUSY TO HATE and soon after that the bad guys had been defeated except for everywhere in the state outside of Atlanta MSA where it's mostly bad guys but you don't ever really need to go there anyway.
Maybe one positive effect of that image/narrative-shifting is that the dynamics on the ground seem more integrated somewhat than Boston. I'm not sure if this is a result of the PR campaign so much as the realities of everyday life. In most of the city and much of the suburbs there is really no way to avoid black/white people interacting with each other on a constant basis, unlike in Boston where that's almost the default mode.
Atlanta is more focused on image, Boston on credentials. Atlanta's media and culture is pervasive and outward projecting. NY of the South doesn't make sense to me but LA in the woods would fit it well. Like LA, the culture projects outwards so it just becomes American mainstream culture. Boston's culture is inward focused, what makes Boston Boston and why everyplace else isn't Boston. That makes Boston extremel distinctive whereas Atlanta somewhat more generic. But on the other hand, that means Atlanta actuall has a massive voice in mainstream culture across the country whereas Boston can't
That's not even getting into the housing look and feel, layouts (Boston - hyper centralized, Atlanta - Multi nodal) there is just so many differences
Thank you for following up! I tried to rep you but the site said I had to spread it or whatever.
I can’t help but find your impression of Boston a little dated, however. It’s one of the fastest growing cities/metros in the northeast. There has been a ton of new bars and breweries opened up that are very popular, though they’re expensive and the city is still lacking in the nightclub department. It’s also rare to be in a place in the city proper or inner suburbs that’s 100% white or black. At the very least, you have Asians or Latinos mixed in.
The time zone piece is interesting. I’m a lukewarm supporter of New England moving to Atlantic time.
I grew up around black people from Chicago and to me they don't sound as southern as actual southerners.
Yea, they don’t my best college friend and roommate was from the south shore neighborhood he said a lotta Chicago stuff “whole time” “joe” “mog” but he didn’t sound like an actual southerner or someone from Atlanta- mot Chicago black people don’t. Still don’t see how it why Chicago is closer to Atlanta than Boston aside from the larger black population. I would say New York first if we’re throwing scale out the window .
But if we throw scale out the window we could throw demography out the window.
Thank you for following up! I tried to rep you but the site said I had to spread it or whatever.
I can’t help but find your impression of Boston a little dated, however. It’s one of the fastest growing cities/metros in the northeast. There has been a ton of new bars and breweries opened up that are very popular, though they’re expensive and the city is still lacking in the nightclub department. It’s also rare to be in a place in the city proper or inner suburbs that’s 100% white or black. At the very least, you have Asians or Latinos mixed in.
The time zone piece is interesting. I’m a lukewarm supporter of New England moving to Atlantic time.
He didn’t say it was only 100% black or white he said it’s almost the default. Which I think is true- especially for the metro at large.
In Boston it feels like white people in particular don’t go to nightclubs they go to bars. For black people we really only go to bars and the theatre district welcomes us-** on the weekends**
There less racial intermingling because whites are probably 60% of the inner Boston Metro compared to like 40% or less in Atlanta. The inner Boston metro is probably like 12% black compared to probably 40% like ATL. So it’s just very very different in that respect.
Outside of that I think every thing else was totally precise.
Outside of that I think every thing else was totally precise.
Not the part about development, though. There have been and still are tons of projects happening all over the city and inner suburbs.
There’s also the glossing over of Boston’s own squeamish history with bussing and Charles Stuart. Though, I don’t think the city brands itself as a place that’s moved past those problems like Atlanta apparently does.
I will say that “image vs credentials” is a very well-put statement that I can generally get behind.
Not the part about development, though. There have been and still are tons of projects happening all over the city and inner suburbs.
There’s also the glossing over of Boston’s own squeamish history with bussing and Charles Stuart. Though, I don’t think the city brands itself as a place that’s moved past those problems like Atlanta apparently does.
I will say that “image vs credentials” is a very well-put statement that I can generally get behind.
I mean... the city would like to move on and has tried to rebrand itself (see: All Inclusive Boston) - general public (especially African Americans) says "no" and really Boston is sort of held hostage in 1981 in terms of the American general public perception.
^Nothing the city can do about that even if they are Hosting the NAACP conference in 2023. And held the NABJ in 2015, and the National Urban League conference in 2011. I hear the city is putting in a bid to host the NBA All-Star Game in 2025. It won't change anything there but the city is trying and really has been trying for 30+ years. They even held the NAACP conference in 1982.
Boston folks think there is a lot of development there but if you actually put it in the context of most cities- it's pretty damn minimal. Not impressive at all compared to what one sees in the Sunbelt or even DC or NYC. City not all that impressive to me.
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