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My views of Boston may be dated. Last time I lived in the area was early 2019 (in Watertown) and before that I was bouncing around in North Andover /Haverhill /Salem NH haven't actually lived there in the city in a good five years. I did use to follow development pretty closely and a fan of archBoston but haven't been keeping up with it lately. I just know how many of the projects would stall out back then or take 10+ years to happen and get reduced multiple times along the way.
Atlanta might not be the hottest market anymore but it's still active. I can count like 15-20 cranes within sight from the top of my building, at least a dozen individual sites. Thigns seem to get built fast. there's plenty of big towers and block-sized parcels that went from proposal stages to been done since I moved here. Skeptical they would have even broken ground in that time frame in Boston. There are still proposals here stuck in limbo too but it's a smaller amount of those
As far as history Boston does get stuck with bussing era image somewhat. I'm not necessarily at a vantage point to see the national black perspective on the city, but I have run into someone down here before who brought it up in the very first conversation "Oh, you're from Boston? I've heard it's racist.." which is a tough thing to address as a white Bostonian talking to a black Atlantan. I wouldn't be surprised if other people think that but just don't say it because there isn't really a good way to answer without getting long winded and nuanced. Most people wouldn't be prepared to answer it at all and it would just make the situation instantly awkward, though I gave it my best shot.. I'm not an Atlanta history expert but from what I can tell the stuff that's happened here would make 1970s Southie look tame. Yet the city's image is mostly moved past that somehow, whether or not it's based in reality.
I think for Atlanta there are still plenty of neighborhoods that are all black, but fewer than there used to be. There are still suburbs that are all white, but fewer than they use to be. Most of the 99% black neighborhoods are residential neighborhoods, with a couple of notable exceptions. The white suburbs are also residential and further out generally. The main commercial/entertainment districts are very mixed which is more key I think than integrating every single residential neighborhood to match the census exactly. I didn't touch on the Hispanic/Asian populations in the two cities which are also pretty different in terms of makeup, along with black and white populations. Hispanic and Asian enclaves here are heavily in the suburbs, moreso than the city itself.
My views of Boston may be dated. Last time I lived in the area was early 2019 (in Watertown) and before that I was bouncing around in North Andover /Haverhill /Salem NH haven't actually lived there in the city in a good five years. I did use to follow development pretty closely and a fan of archBoston but haven't been keeping up with it lately. I just know how many of the projects would stall out back then or take 10+ years to happen and get reduced multiple times along the way.
Atlanta might not be the hottest market anymore but it's still active. I can count like 15-20 cranes within sight from the top of my building, at least a dozen individual sites. Thigns seem to get built fast. there's plenty of big towers and block-sized parcels that went from proposal stages to been done since I moved here. Skeptical they would have even broken ground in that time frame in Boston. There are still proposals here stuck in limbo too but it's a smaller amount of those
As far as history Boston does get stuck with bussing era image somewhat. I'm not necessarily at a vantage point to see the national black perspective on the city, but I have run into someone down here before who brought it up in the very first conversation "Oh, you're from Boston? I've heard it's racist.." which is a tough thing to address as a white Bostonian talking to a black Atlantan. I wouldn't be surprised if other people think that but just don't say it because there isn't really a good way to answer without getting long winded and nuanced. Most people wouldn't be prepared to answer it at all and it would just make the situation instantly awkward, though I gave it my best shot.. I'm not an Atlanta history expert but from what I can tell the stuff that's happened here would make 1970s Southie look tame. Yet the city's image is mostly moved past that somehow, whether or not it's based in reality.
I think for Atlanta there are still plenty of neighborhoods that are all black, but fewer than there used to be. There are still suburbs that are all white, but fewer than they use to be. Most of the 99% black neighborhoods are residential neighborhoods, with a couple of notable exceptions. The white suburbs are also residential and further out generally. The main commercial/entertainment districts are very mixed which is more key I think than integrating every single residential neighborhood to match the census exactly. I didn't touch on the Hispanic/Asian populations in the two cities which are also pretty different in terms of makeup, along with black and white populations. Hispanic and Asian enclaves here are heavily in the suburbs, moreso than the city itself.
I am really enjoying your posts, they are absolutely spot-on! For someone so new to the region, you have an amazing grasp of the 'real' Atlanta.
My views of Boston may be dated. Last time I lived in the area was early 2019 (in Watertown) and before that I was bouncing around in North Andover /Haverhill /Salem NH haven't actually lived there in the city in a good five years. I did use to follow development pretty closely and a fan of archBoston but haven't been keeping up with it lately. I just know how many of the projects would stall out back then or take 10+ years to happen and get reduced multiple times along the way.
Atlanta might not be the hottest market anymore but it's still active. I can count like 15-20 cranes within sight from the top of my building, at least a dozen individual sites. Thigns seem to get built fast. there's plenty of big towers and block-sized parcels that went from proposal stages to been done since I moved here. Skeptical they would have even broken ground in that time frame in Boston. There are still proposals here stuck in limbo too but it's a smaller amount of those
As far as history Boston does get stuck with bussing era image somewhat. I'm not necessarily at a vantage point to see the national black perspective on the city, but I have run into someone down here before who brought it up in the very first conversation "Oh, you're from Boston? I've heard it's racist.." which is a tough thing to address as a white Bostonian talking to a black Atlantan. I wouldn't be surprised if other people think that but just don't say it because there isn't really a good way to answer without getting long winded and nuanced. Most people wouldn't be prepared to answer it at all and it would just make the situation instantly awkward, though I gave it my best shot.. I'm not an Atlanta history expert but from what I can tell the stuff that's happened here would make 1970s Southie look tame. Yet the city's image is mostly moved past that somehow, whether or not it's based in reality.
I think for Atlanta there are still plenty of neighborhoods that are all black, but fewer than there used to be. There are still suburbs that are all white, but fewer than they use to be. Most of the 99% black neighborhoods are residential neighborhoods, with a couple of notable exceptions. The white suburbs are also residential and further out generally. The main commercial/entertainment districts are very mixed which is more key I think than integrating every single residential neighborhood to match the census exactly. I didn't touch on the Hispanic/Asian populations in the two cities which are also pretty different in terms of makeup, along with black and white populations. Hispanic and Asian enclaves here are heavily in the suburbs, moreso than the city itself.
I mean you're right. There's not much of really impressive or speedy development in Boston. ESPECIALLY IN THE SUBURBS. New Englanders are just so used to a decade of no building and low levels of building it doesn't even compare that well to many east coast/sunbelt cities. And they're used to other slow northeastern development patterns. I don think you have last lived there in 2019 is dated at all. I can tell the city has change under Wu and Janey but it isn't that drastic to usurp your findings.
As Black Bostonian "I heard its racist" is the reception you get from maybe 1/3rd of black people when they meet you, or just like a cagey silence, or surprise. A few are indifferent or know have visited. As I've said before- Black people don't have many social ties/circles in Boston so most of what they think of the city's racism and the 70s/80s. They're surprised there's a subway system, they are surprised that it's expensive, they are surprised it gets warm there, they are surprised there are beaches, they are surprised that there are a lot of immigrants, that there is Black culture of any kind there. I remember some people in Washington DC asking me if there was hip hop music in Boston or black radio- I was like yea. And they kind of looked at me like I was speaking another language lol- just couldn't imagine it I guess. They generally think it's a bunch of colleges, Mark Wahlberg, and sports stadiums. Essentially its viewed as more of a town than a major metro/city.
White people have a lot more personal and cultural exposure to Boston in the present day intangible ways and are more desirous to know more about it and generally have a better understanding of it albeit very skewed. As a White Bostonian, id suspect Black Atlantans are going to be less likely to address the racial issue to you than they would with me because they're going to view you with suspicion and probably assume you're some level of racist/ignorant.
Hispanics and Asians seem to be more a part of the population. Culture in Boston than Atlanta, albeit ATL and especially its suburbs, have many Hispanics and Asians. Very different in ethnic makeup and mainstream integration. Hispanics have been in Boston longer, and are much more likely to have black origins and live in Black neighborhoods.
I focus on demographics here because it is probably the #1 (noticeable) difference between Boston and Atlanta. Much of the cultural thing you mention here is derived from the ethnic/racial differences of these two places. If DC weren't included here as north and Boston had 2x as many black people I think it would runaway with the poll. White poeple from Atlanta ar emore culturally competent with black people because theyre more used to socializing if not with them at least around them. Theres veyr few palces for socialization that are truly integrated in bosotn, I could lsit them.
Encore
Downtown Crossing/Boston Common
2 or 3 nightclubs
Malls in the city or south of the city
Houghtons Pond
Darryls Bar and Kitchen
That's basically it, other than that black people and white people don't share an equal footing in social spaces. When I lived in Boston I would go weeks without talking to any white person besides a coworker or too. A lot of white people in the Boston Area dont even know where black people are, let alone hang out..
But I digress- this is getting off topic at this point.
I mean you're right. There's not much of really impressive or speedy development in Boston. ESPECIALLY IN THE SUBURBS. New Englanders are just so used to a decade of no building and low levels of building it doesn't even compare that well to many east coast/sunbelt cities. And they're used to other slow northeastern development patterns. I don think you have last lived there in 2019 is dated at all. I can tell the city has change under Wu and Janey but it isn't that drastic to usurp your findings.
As Black Bostonian "I heard its racist" is the reception you get from maybe 1/3rd of black people when they meet you, or just like a cagey silence, or surprise. A few are indifferent or know have visited. As I've said before- Black people don't have many social ties/circles in Boston so most of what they think of the city's racism and the 70s/80s. They're surprised there's a subway system, they are surprised that it's expensive, they are surprised it gets warm there, they are surprised there are beaches, they are surprised that there are a lot of immigrants, that there is Black culture of any kind there. I remember some people in Washington DC asking me if there was hip hop music in Boston or black radio- I was like yea. And they kind of looked at me like I was speaking another language lol- just couldn't imagine it I guess. They generally think it's a bunch of colleges, Mark Wahlberg, and sports stadiums. Essentially its viewed as more of a town than a major metro/city.
White people have a lot more personal and cultural exposure to Boston in the present day intangible ways and are more desirous to know more about it and generally have a better understanding of it albeit very skewed. As a White Bostonian, id suspect Black Atlantans are going to be less likely to address the racial issue to you than they would with me because they're going to view you with suspicion and probably assume you're some level of racist/ignorant.
Hispanics and Asians seem to be more a part of the population. Culture in Boston than Atlanta, albeit ATL and especially its suburbs, have many Hispanics and Asians. Very different in ethnic makeup and mainstream integration. Hispanics have been in Boston longer, and are much more likely to have black origins and live in Black neighborhoods.
I focus on demographics here because it is probably the #1 (noticeable) difference between Boston and Atlanta. Much of the cultural thing you mention here is derived from the ethnic/racial differences of these two places. If DC weren't included here as north and Boston had 2x as many black people I think it would runaway with the poll. White poeple from Atlanta ar emore culturally competent with black people because theyre more used to socializing if not with them at least around them. Theres veyr few palces for socialization that are truly integrated in bosotn, I could lsit them.
Encore
Downtown Crossing/Boston Common
2 or 3 nightclubs
Malls in the city or south of the city
Houghtons Pond
Darryls Bar and Kitchen
That's basically it, other than that black people and white people don't share an equal footing in social spaces. When I lived in Boston I would go weeks without talking to any white person besides a coworker or too. A lot of white people in the Boston Area dont even know where black people are, let alone hang out..
But I digress- this is getting off topic at this point.
I don’t thinks it’s “encore” it’s more Everett in general. Not a whole ton of Black people (~15%) but Malden/Everett are ~110,000 people, minority-majority over ~8 sq miles and I don’t really think there are “Black neighborhoods or “white neighborhoods” or “Hispanic neighborhoods” or anything. It’s all pretty integrated. Malden is more Asian and Everett more Hispanic but there isn’t some hard border like there is in Boston proper outside some of Dorchester.
I don’t thinks it’s “encore” it’s more Everett in general. Not a whole ton of Black people (~15%) but Malden/Everett are ~110,000 people, minority-majority over ~8 sq miles and I don’t really think there are “Black neighborhoods or “white neighborhoods” or “Hispanic neighborhoods” or anything. It’s all pretty integrated. Malden is more Asian and Everett more Hispanic but there isn’t some hard border like there is in Boston proper outside some of Dorchester.
I was talking about notable places where it's a genuinely, noticeable racially diverse recreational environment. Everett has SERIOUS racial issues in its city government, much more so than its citizenry which is uber diverse and pretty friendly. IDk how people socialize in Everett outside of Encore.
I can't give a good analysis of Hispanic population in Atlanta. It exists, and it's growing, but I'm just not that knowledgable on it. The classic "New Yorkesque" urban DR/PR culture likewe're talking about on the bodegas thread is longstanding in parts of MA. When I was growing it was established enough to feel like it had always been there. I haven't seen anything like that here but it doesn't feel there are less Hispanic than walking around than central Boston, maybe slightly less. The practice director at my job is actually PR and his cousin also in upper management in another company around here. very different than most of the PR guys you would run into on Broadway in Lawrence.
Asian population here I think gets still overlooked despite how much it's booming. My Korean friend in NYC would not accept the fact that Koreans do live here and in fast growing numbers. People hear about the Texas cities for some reason but not Atlanta in that aspect. The Asians who live here realize it though. I might be more biased here since my program class at school was at least 50% Asian if you count South Asians and still a good third if you only go off East Asians. They're also really overrepresented in my line of work so it may be partly the circles I'm in making them seem more ubiquitous even in city limits.
I mean you're right. There's not much of really impressive or speedy development in Boston.
The Seaport went from a bunch of parking lots to a bustling, modern neighborhood in the span of 10 years. The area around Fenway Park too. I haven’t seen many developments in other northeastern cities as impressive or speedy as those. Assembly Square is another place that saw big, quick change and Union is rapidly following suit.
Though, you are right that the outer suburbs are often frozen in time. Guess that’s a big differentiator re Boston v Atlanta.
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