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Clam Chowder is an example of a properly nationalized dish.
Beach Pizza and that canned Bread are good ones.
Scrapple is one for Philly.
A Chicken Kabob Sub is something with no real comparison elsewhere. Like a Spiedie is almost close but that lacks the veggies.
So why does Beach Pizza count, but NY-style pizza doesn't? It's not like the NY-style thin crust pizza that uses dry, grated mozzarella unevenly mottled in the oven with a high-gluten bread base to form a thick crust on the rim, but thin and pliable in the interior cut in wide slices to be folded up is common elsewhere. Pizza as you've said before is common throughout the US, but since you're open to taking varieties of pizzas as distinctive, then why does this one count but the NY-style doesn't? It's not very common outside of the Tri-State Area as the generic national pizza chains generally have a quite different, thicker crust and with a much more homogenized cheese and cut into larger slices. Is it because Pizza Hut markets a pizza as NY-style that's not actually the same style of pizza? Is it because the name is NY-Style instead of saying something without the name of the city in it?
Canned bread and scrapple are interesting as less of a dish or platter, but rather a specific item. I guess bialys and knish then, but both of these share names with different foods with common origins elsewhere (though to be fair, the place where bialys came from originally and owes its namesake, due to fairly dire events, no longer has the Ashkenazi Jewish community from whence the item came so by default NYC is now its home). Egg cream has a distinctive name and isn't found elsewhere as a single item food, but it's a drink instead.
If a chicken kabob sub sandwich counts and the spiedie sandwich is different because the latter lacks veggies in the sandwich, then why does a halal plate not count if there are Greek places that sell a general meat with rice platter elsewhere even though the contents are different? Or should they also get disqualified since it's not that uncommon for street carts in NYC to have kebabs that you can eat with a hot dog bun and that some Turkic restaurants have kebabs served in sandwich bread? Similarly, why does the chopped cheese not count? Or why doesn't the New York style hot dog which has simmered onions and sauerkraut which are uncommon elsewhere not count if topping differences can count for others?
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 08-17-2023 at 12:07 PM..
So why does Beach Pizza count, but NY-style pizza doesn't? It's not like the NY-style thin crust pizza that uses dry, grated mozzarella unevenly mottled in the oven with a high-gluten bread base to form a thick crust on the rim, but thin and pliable in the interior cut in wide slices to be folded up is common elsewhere. Pizza as you've said before is common throughout the US, but since you're open to taking varieties of pizzas as distinctive, then why does this one count but the NY-style doesn't? It's not very common outside of the Tri-State Area as the generic national pizza chains generally have a quite different, thicker crust and with a much more homogenized cheese and cut into larger slices. Is it because Pizza Hut markets a pizza as NY-style that's not actually the same style of pizza? Is it because the name is NY-Style instead of saying something without the name of the city in it?
Canned bread and scrapple are interesting as less of a dish or platter, but rather a specific item. I guess bialys and knish then, but both of these share names with different foods with common origins elsewhere. Egg cream has a distinctive name and isn't found elsewhere as a single item food, but it's a drink instead.
If a chicken kabob sub sandwich counts and the spiedie sandwich is different because it lacks veggies in the sandwich, then why does a halal plate not count if there are Greek places that sell a general meat with rice platter elsewhere even though the contents are different? Similarly, why does the chopped cheese not count?
Because NY style Pizza is like the default?
Beach Pizza uses a whole different cheese and different sauce and different crust. While NY style pizza is just kind of amorphously “better”.
The Canned Bread is more like a molasses raisin cake that isn’t found elsewhere.it’s not like wheat bread in a can.
Halal plates are just literally Shawarma or Lamb Gyro and Tzatziki according to a quick google of the recipe. It’s not remotely a New York thing. It’s just a think that more popular in New York than elsewhere because of New York’s ethnic mix. Huge huge distinction
A pinch of like coriander doesn’t make a dish completely different. But adding Onions, Tomatoes, Lettuce, Feta, and Greek Dressing does?
I’m really sorry it bothers you so much but New York being the worlds most important city for generations just imports and exports so much culture it struggles to hang out to things that are truly unique
Beach Pizza uses a whole different cheese and different sauce and different crust. While NY style pizza is just kind of amorphously “better”.
The Canned Bread is more like a molasses raisin cake that isn’t found elsewhere.it’s not like wheat bread in a can.
Halal plates are just literally Shawarma or Lamb Gyro and Tzatziki according to a quick google of the recipe.
A pinch of like coriander doesn’t make a dish completely different. But adding Onions, Tomatoes, Lettuce, Feta, and Greek Dressing does?
Yea, NY style pizza is the default in New York City and the Tri-State Area. It isn't what you get for pizza in Southern California where I'm from and it's not the pizza that the large national chains serve. How does NY style pizza being the default in NYC and the Tri-State Area, but not the default elsewhere disqualify it? I'm not talking about pizza in NYC being generally better, which I contend it is for various reasons, but NY-style pizza.
No argument here that canned bread seems unique. Why are bialys and egg cream not?
You just said a chicken kebab sandwich becomes another different regional item with the addition of veggies. Why does the addition of diced salad, aromatic rice seasoned a specific way, and a specific white sauce used (not Tahini) then not qualify? Why is chopped cheese not distinctive local items if these other ones are?
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
Black and White Cookies are literally sold at Walmart, at least all across New England.
If you can buy it at Walmart 300 miles away. I don’t think it’s exclusive to New York.
A Chopped Cheese is just a local name for a steak and cheese.
If we are doing that like 1/3rd of Mass sub shops are local cuisine cause I’ve never seen Steak Bombs, Chicken Kabob Subs, Stir Fry Subs, Super Beefs, Chicken Bombs, etc more than maybe 30 miles from Boston. Hell the North Shore has its own kind of Pizza (Beach) which really isn’t found outside a 25 mile radius of Salisbury beach
New York has way less local cuisine than most east coast towns because it just doesn’t stay local for long.
A egg cream is just a chocolate float? It’s just called something silly.
A chocolate float is ice cream, mik, chocolate syrup and soda.
An egg cream does not have ice cream in it. It is seltzer, mik, and chocolate syrup (preferably Fox's U-bet)
Its a fairly common New York street food. I don't even know if Muslims eat it. I guess they do since its halal?
Since there has been some back and forth banter on this, I absolutely view Halal Carts as a New York thing.
To the Bostonians out there, it is the equivalent of The Halal Guys but with food carts and trucks littered across the city. They're everywhere in Manhattan.
There's nothing you cant get in NYC you can get in DC or Boston. I almost said skiing right outside the city like Blue Hills, but I guess you can do that a at the American Dream?
So..yea, nothing. Greatest city in the Western Hemisphere and probably on earth.
I lived in Westwood, MA and loved Blue Hills - the nature park! We used to watch the cute otters swim around! My kids and their friends hunted for arrowheads on the beach of the lake too.
When I lived in Westchester NY, we skied at Thunder Ridge. It's pretty much Blue Hills (without a nature preserve) and was as close to our house as Blue Hills.
What NYC really has over any city in America is music! It has the Metropolitan Opera - no other US city competes. It's on a level of the major opera houses of Europe.
NYC has the Balanchine Ballet - New York City Ballet Company and the Martha Graham Ballet company - no other US city competes.
Because NYC has more music schools, there are more artists and more concerts. Some concerts are at big venues like Carnegie Hall, but many concerts are smaller - given in churches, colleges, museums, etc.
All these artists, musicians and set designers helps make the Broadway's theater distinct is so special.
NYC has more museums and visual artists than any US city. Boston's MFA and Science Museum are pretty small in comparison to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and the Natural History Museum. DC's free museums are paid for by the federal government. They are nice, but still not as physical large or extensive Metropolitan Museum of Art's collection. Same for Pittsburgh's Carnegie Museums - nice but smaller. Still, I enjoyed Pittsburgh's Carnegie bird exhibitions. Besides the museums, private art galleries and auction houses are numerous in NYC. Galleries help create artists' communitieswhich draws them into NYC.
As for immigrant foods:
Hands down, Pittsburgh is my favorite city for immigrant food!
DC has great immigrant food, but it's pricey. I went to a DC Balkan restaurant and left with a $100 per person bill (two drinks and a tip). Too much money!
NYC is my favorite city for European food.
In Virginia:
Virginia and Texas are tied for the best bbq. Maybe Austin, Texas's bbq is slightly better.
Tidewater Virginia has a transplanted Brooklyn pizzeria! Good pizza! Good Italian rice balls!
However, bagels, just forget about it. NYC's bagels beat all others. As a matter of fact, all my NY friends down here order their bagels from NYC. Pastrami - same thing - Katz or Zabar's deliveries. There deliveries work, but it's not the same eating a fresh bagel still warm from the oven.
Oddly enough, it's just not bagels. NYC's bread is so much better than anywhere else. NYC has semolina and fantastic rye breads not found elsewhere.
For Italian sausage, semolina bread, aged provolone and other Italian specialities. I used to drive to Wellesley, MA or into Boston's North End for it. In Pittsburgh, I go to the Strip. It's harder to find in DC. In Virginia, it's a lost clause. I order it all online from either the Penn Mac or Staten Island deli's. I order my Italian desserts from NYC - Tidewater Virginia has crappy bakeries.
The best Chinese food was in Blue Orchard restaurant in Westwood. Only NYC's Chinatown has Chinese food that good. There is no decent Chinese food in Tidewater Virginia. It's my first choice for DC dining.
Lobsters - nothing beats Boston's lobsters! A lobster roll from Cape Cod is so perfect - I only dream about it now! Cape Cod has the prettiest beaches on the entire eastern seaboard too. The tide is considerably stronger on the NYC coastline.
Yea, NY style pizza is the default in New York City and the Tri-State Area. It isn't what you get for pizza in Southern California where I'm from and it's not the pizza that the large national chains serve. How does NY style pizza being the default in NYC and the Tri-State Area, but not the default elsewhere disqualify it? I'm not talking about pizza in NYC being generally better, which I contend it is for various reasons, but NY-style pizza.
No argument here that canned bread seems unique. Why are bialys and egg cream not?
You just said a chicken kebab sandwich becomes another different regional item with the addition of veggies. Why does the addition of diced salad, aromatic rice seasoned a specific way, and a specific white sauce used (not Tahini) then not qualify? Why is chopped cheese not distinctive local items if these other ones are?
Because it’s not a separate dish. It’s just called like a shawarma bowl or whatever. And it has the same rice, chicken small salad and functionally identical white sauce (which I linked the recipe, the “White sauce” is actually tzatziki sauce). The difference between Halal plates seems significantly larger than the difference between the Halal play and Shawarma Kebab dinners served literally everywhere else in the country.
It’s the atmosphere that’s different a cart not a small little sub shop kinda place. Like the age old bodega vs corner store thing. The fundamental difference between like a Cumberland farms and a bodega is vibes not content.
Chicken kebab subs have toppings as well as a different marinade than spiedies. And the difference between Chicken Kebab subs is smaller than that is between Chicken kebab subs and other sandwiches which makes it distinct
Because it’s not a separate dish. It’s just called like a shawarma bowl or whatever. And it has the same rice, chicken small salad and functionally identical white sauce (which I linked the recipe, the “White sauce” is actually tzatziki sauce). The difference between Halal plates seems significantly larger than the difference between the Halal play and Shawarma Kebab dinners served literally everywhere else in the country.
It’s the atmosphere that’s different a cart not a small little sub shop kinda place. Like the age old bodega vs corner store thing. The fundamental difference between like a Cumberland farms and a bodega is vibes not content.
Chicken kebab subs have toppings as well as a different marinade than spiedies. And the difference between Chicken Kebab subs is smaller than that is between Chicken kebab subs and other sandwiches which makes it distinct
The link is wrong. The white sauce is more mayo based than yogurt based. There's also no cucumber in most white sauces. Tzatziki also tend to be more watery. This is closer to the real thing: https://imhungryforthat.com/halal-white-sauce-recipe/
Black and White Cookies are literally sold at Walmart, at least all across New England.
If you can buy it at Walmart 300 miles away. I don’t think it’s exclusive to New York.
A Chopped Cheese is just a local name for a steak and cheese.
If we are doing that like 1/3rd of Mass sub shops are local cuisine cause I’ve never seen Steak Bombs, Chicken Kabob Subs, Stir Fry Subs, Super Beefs, Chicken Bombs, etc more than maybe 30 miles from Boston. Hell the North Shore has its own kind of Pizza (Beach) which really isn’t found outside a 25 mile radius of Salisbury beach
New York has way less local cuisine than most east coast towns because it just doesn’t stay local for long.
A egg cream is just a chocolate float? It’s just called something silly.
Only millions of people the world over would disagree with you but otherwise you may be onto something.
I think you mean that New York has exported its local cuisine WAY better and on a much more institutionalized basis than any other east coast and American city. Philly has as well with the Cheesesteak and Pretzel and Tastycakes. Boston has with seafood. Those other garbage foods you mention, well that's kinda the reason they never took off lol
And of course these local cuisines are still here in NY and not going anywhere in this lifetime.
The reason those foods you mentioned in Boston no one has heard of? Because no one else wants to hear of them. They aren't the type of things that scale the way New York bagels, pizza, and delis have since, well, forever. They actually have to taste good by the average person for them to want to be replicated. People don't replicate crap unless they want to fail at life.
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