What does New York lack despite its size that other Acela metros have? (beach, south)
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Yes, while a lot of people in NYC area exaggerate about how much better a certain food is there… bagels are ones that are actually better in NYC AND hard to replicate outside the area.
Why is it hard to replicate? I think there are various reasons that food in NYC is good. The density makes competition fierce, there are many immigrants from all over the world, the sheer size of the city means you can find almost anything, often without traveling far, etc.
However, the idea that basic food items found in every city like Bagels or Pizza are completely impossible to match outside of NYC always makes me laugh. Is there good pizza or bagel place on every corner in other cities, maybe not, but is it absolutely impossible to make an NYC level bagel or pizza outside of the city of New York? Let's be serious here.
Does other places copying something mean that it's no longer native? I think that's arguable. You also don't need to go with just bagels. Are you going with bagels and pizza (and again, there are different kinds of pizza out there and NY-style pizza is distinctive) because you aren't too familiar with other dishes? Is it possible that you're naming the most popular ones because you don't know the other ones?
It makes it not local.
A chocolate chip cookie has very clear origins in Whitman Mass. it’s not a local cuisine though. It’s just something that was from there. That’s what most things in New York to being.
And even that’s a stretch because Bagels aren’t even clearly from NY. They’re in Import supposedly perfected in New York.
Someone listed a Pastrami on Rye as well and they complaint was that they slice it too thin in the Midwest ir or whatever. Which is a fundamentally different level of “local” than say asking for a Garbage plate in Kentucky.
Why is it hard to replicate? I think there are various reasons that food in NYC is good. The density makes competition fierce, there are many immigrants from all over the world, the sheer size of the city means you can find almost anything, often without traveling far, etc.
However, the idea that basic food items found in every city like Bagels or Pizza are completely impossible to match outside of NYC always makes me laugh. Is there good pizza or bagel place on every corner in other cities, maybe not, but is it absolutely impossible to make an NYC level bagel or pizza outside of the city of New York? Let's be serious here.
Honestly, I cant answer this question. Some say the way the bagel is made. Some say the water. Some say just due to the hyper density of bagel shops/bagel trucks/bagels in NYC.
But the quality of bagels in NYC is hard to match.
Pizzas? Yeah i agree. I don't even think its that good in NYC relatively speaking. But I let the Yorkies have the bagels… thats one I will agree with them on. Although, my friend from Albany is starting to make bagels in Boston… so lets see if his hold a match!!!
Okay but there is a pretty vast gap between “well bagels are better in NYC” and these other regional dishes.
Like Bostonians know what bagels are. If you asked for a Can of Bread at a NYC shop there would be a complete sense of confusion and a reply “A can of what?”
It’s simply not possible for NYC to have that sort of weird niche thing. Cause like Kramer would have been obsessed with it in Seinfeld cause the concept of Canned bread is kind of funny.
There is not a single person in the country that would ask “what is a bagel” bit about 300,000,000 would have to ask “what is scrapple”
I forgot about scrapple! That is definitely a food unique to Philly/PA, DE, MD, parts of Virginia and not so much NYC.
When people try it, they usually love it (especially if you do the real deal out toward Lancaster). I just tell people don't ask what's in it, lol.
A chocolate chip cookie has very clear origins in Whitman Mass. it’s not a local cuisine though. It’s just something that was from there. That’s what most things in New York to being.
And even that’s a stretch because Bagels aren’t even clearly from NY. They’re in Import supposedly perfected in New York.
Someone listed a Pastrami on Rye as well and they complaint was that they slice it too thin in the Midwest ir or whatever. Which is a fundamentally different level of “local” than say asking for a Garbage plate in Kentucky.
Your wording was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
going to be hated in but New York mostly lacks unique native cuisine. Due to its cultural power and massive expat community anything that was local to NYC has spread across the country in a way like mambo sauce, Orange Crush, Coffee milk, Greek Pizza or what not have not
It's still native and it's most certainly still local in the sense you can still find it, but it's no longer unique if it's in other places. I think there may be a fundamental issue though with some of the more famous items both in that they're very well known and distributed and that they don't have a specific name but instead get tagged with something like "New York-style" and then the name of it as would be the case for pizza and to a lesser extent bagels and pastrami. That bit about pastrami on rye isn't that common and certainly hasn't traveled as far as bagels have. I think if you were looking for items that are harder to find elsewhere in the US and without an overlapping name then for NYC it'd be things like halal plates, chopped cheese, egg cream, black and white cookies, bialys and knishes. Those generally haven't spread as far out. More fine dining wise would be Waldorf salad, lobster Newburg among others and the degree they've spread out varies a lot.
Most things in all places in the US are going to have an analogue somewhere else in the US. The US doesn't deviate from the monoculture that much.
It's still native and it's most certainly still local in the sense you can still find it, but it's no longer unique if it's in other places. I think there may be a fundamental issue though with some of the more famous items both in that they're very well known and distributed and that they don't have a specific name but instead get tagged with something like "New York-style" and then the name of it as would be the case for pizza and to a lesser extent bagels and pastrami. That bit about pastrami on rye isn't that common and certainly hasn't traveled as far as bagels have. I think if you were looking for items that are harder to find elsewhere in the US and without an overlapping name then for NYC it'd be things like halal plates, chopped cheese, egg cream, black and white cookies, bialys and knishes. Those generally haven't spread as far out. More fine dining wise would be Waldorf salad, lobster Newburg among others and the degree they've spread out varies a lot.
Most things in all places in the US are going to have an analogue somewhere else in the US. The US doesn't deviate from the monoculture that much.
Unique is the qualifier there.
Also I feel like Halal Plate is pretty much there in the name, that it’s really not from New York.
As with pretty much everything on that list, it’s either just not unique at all to New York (black and white cookies are sold by Entemanns for gods sake) or just ethnic foods easier to find in New York due to diverse immigrant communities (knishes) or just a local name for something pretty ubiquitous (chopped cheese)
Honestly, I cant answer this question. Some say the way the bagel is made. Some say the water. Some say just due to the hyper density of bagel shops/bagel trucks/bagels in NYC.
But the quality of bagels in NYC is hard to match.
Pizzas? Yeah i agree. I don't even think its that good in NYC relatively speaking. But I let the Yorkies have the bagels… thats one I will agree with them on. Although, my friend from Albany is starting to make bagels in Boston… so lets see if his hold a match!!!
I think NYC people are more discerning customers when it comes to bagels. They can tell if corners are being cut in the process and there is also an expectation of freshness that can be harder to find in other places where bagels are less widely consumed. There are probably some supply chain efficiencies that allow them to make high quality bagels at a lower price point than elsewhere. It's equivalent to tortillas here in Texas.
But, I think that there are individual mom and pop bagel places across the US that make fresh bagels as good as those in NYC. That it's impossible to replicate an NYC bagel is pure hype and it wouldn't pass the Pepsi challenge IMO.
It's still native and it's most certainly still local in the sense you can still find it, but it's no longer unique if it's in other places. I think there may be a fundamental issue though with some of the more famous items both in that they're very well known and distributed and that they don't have a specific name but instead get tagged with something like "New York-style" and then the name of it as would be the case for pizza and to a lesser extent bagels and pastrami. That bit about pastrami on rye isn't that common and certainly hasn't traveled as far as bagels have. I think if you were looking for items that are harder to find elsewhere in the US and without an overlapping name then for NYC it'd be things like halal plates, chopped cheese, egg cream, black and white cookies, bialys and knishes. Those generally haven't spread as far out. More fine dining wise would be Waldorf salad, lobster Newburg among others and the degree they've spread out varies a lot.
Most things in all places in the US are going to have an analogue somewhere else in the US. The US doesn't deviate from the monoculture that much.
The egg cream — which contains neither — is something that's unique to New York.
I've seen some people argue that the chopped cheese and the Philadelphia cheesesteak (another local specialty that's gone national) are cousins.
What's a "halal plate"? Clearly, it was created to cater to Muslim dietary needs, but I'd still be interested in knowing what's in it.
I think someone mentioned scrapple upthread. This "mystery meat," made from a mix of cornmeal and various unspecified parts of the pig ("scraps" from the slaughter, hence the name, I believe) and eaten for breakfast, originated in Amish country IIRC but is very much associated with Philadelphia (which is the big city located right next to Amish country). And it hasn't really spread much beyond the region.
Unfortunately, since it's not located on the Northeast Corridor but in upstate New York, it doesn't qualify for this discussion, but:
I'd say that the Rochester garbage plate also falls into the category we're talking about. Oddly enough, there's a restaurant in Philadelphia's Manayunk section that offers (or offered — I don't know whether it survived the pandemic) the dish on Saturday nights after 10 pm.
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