Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Im sorry if this doesn't sit well with you but downtown Chicago is not in the same league as NY. But its funny watching you Chicago lovers try to believe that it is. Please do yourself a favor and judge Chicago to LA, they are closer in size. Even Toronto has twice as many highrises for half of the amount of people. What is with that? What is Chicago's problem for letting a city half the size have twice as many highrises?
You keep saying this, but what constitues a high-rise to you? Some arbitrary number like 12 stories? Is that what shows up in the Chicago, Toronto, LA and NYC skylines - 12 stories? We are talking about skylines here right? 12 Stories for big-city skylines, thats a pretty low standard there.
That arbitrary number you love to tout, maybe noone has ever told you this, but you really have to take that with a grain of salt. Sao Paulo has ~40k buildings over 12 stories. They have a beautiful skyline dont they? NYC is not even in the same league according to you. See how stupid that sounds?
NYC has an impressive number of buildings >12 stories, some 5-6K, but Im not impressed with that number. Toronto has ~2k buildings taller than that arbitrary number of 12 stories, due to their propensity for high-rise living. But TO also has less than 20 buildings >500 feet, none over 1000 ft (excl CN). LA has ~20 greater than 500ft, and one taller than 1000 ft. Chicago has some 120 buildings greater than 500 feet (and at least 5 over 1000 ft, w/ 2 more on the way). More than documented for Shanghai and Dubai (and emporis does a decent job of catching buildings over 500ft). Only NYC and HK (both ~200) have more.
Are you that much of a hater to argue that the LA and TO skylines match up to Chicagos, but Chicagos does not to NYC, due to the number of 12 story buildings? Especially when 12 story buildings do not even show up in the skyline?!
Thats truly a pathetic argument, but if you really want to stand behind that one, be my guest. And keep in mind, you are essentially saying that Seoul, Shanghai, Sao Paulo, and maybe even Beijing all essentially have superior skylines (some far far superior) to NYC based on that argument.
BTW, I find it strange that these New Yorkers are so threatened by lil ol' Chicago. What could it be that makes them feel so threatened? Could it be the fact that the argument that the skyline of Chicago is actually more aesthetic than that of NYC is somehow valid, and deep down they know it? Could it be that Chicago is the only city on this continent that has taller buildings? I truly do not understand it. If they were that comfortable in NYC's supposed superiority they would not need to try so hard to diminish Chicago. I have no need to try to diminish a great city like NYC on account of some immature comments. Why do they feel that they must? Thats the most pathetic part of all this.
You keep saying this, but what constitues a high-rise to you? Some arbitrary number like 12 stories? Is that what shows up in the Chicago, Toronto, LA and NYC skylines - 12 stories? We are talking about skylines here right? 12 Stories for big-city skylines, thats a pretty low standard there.
That arbitrary number you love to tout, maybe noone has ever told you this, but you really have to take that with a grain of salt. Sao Paulo has ~40k buildings over 12 stories. They have a beautiful skyline dont they? NYC is not even in the same league according to you. See how stupid that sounds?
NYC has an impressive number of buildings >12 stories, some 5-6K, but Im not impressed with that number. Toronto has ~2k buildings taller than that arbitrary number of 12 stories, due to their propensity for high-rise living. But TO also has less than 20 buildings >500 feet, none over 1000 ft (excl CN). LA has ~20 greater than 500ft, and one taller than 1000 ft. Chicago has some 120 buildings greater than 500 feet (and at least 5 over 1000 ft, w/ 2 more on the way). More than documented for Shanghai and Dubai (and emporis does a decent job of catching buildings over 500ft). Only NYC and HK (both ~200) have more.
Are you that much of a hater to argue that the LA and TO skylines match up to Chicagos, but Chicagos does not to NYC, due to the number of 12 story buildings? Especially when 12 story buildings do not even show up in the skyline?!
Thats truly a pathetic argument, but if you really want to stand behind that one, be my guest. And keep in mind, you are essentially saying that Seoul, Shanghai, Sao Paulo, and maybe even Beijing all essentially have superior skylines (some far far superior) to NYC based on that argument.
BTW, I find it strange that these New Yorkers are so threatened by lil ol' Chicago. What could it be that makes them feel so threatened? Could it be the fact that the argument that the skyline of Chicago is actually more aesthetic than that of NYC is somehow valid, and deep down they know it? Could it be that Chicago is the only city on this continent that has taller buildings? I truly do not understand it. If they were that comfortable in NYC's supposed superiority they would not need to try so hard to diminish Chicago. I have no need to try to diminish a great city like NYC on account of some immature comments. Why do they feel that they must? Thats the most pathetic part of all this.
Wow this is really getting sad. Now you are going to dictate what a skyrise is. I've seen everything now. I don't define skyrises. I am going by what emporis and other sites are saying. Apparently Toronto half the metro of Chi-town has twice as many. Thats funny if you ask me. Lol...
By the way, I don't think New Yorkers are threatened with anything Chicago. Its alot of Chicago people with an inferiority complex. They want to claim their much smaller city is superior all the time. Trust me, its hilarious. How would you like to hear people from ST. Paul constantly talking about how much better their city is than Chicago? Or that their skyline is superior, etc, etc, and that it should even win a "mega" skyline competition. I mean seriously, its getting pathetic. As far as some of those cities you mentioned, as far as I know the only one that has more highrises than NY is Hong Kong. So I really don't know where you got your information for all of those other cities.
As far as immature, any comment that rings truth to you or that you don't like, you label as immature, when frankly I think that there is alot of immaturity on CD from both sides. We have to agree to disagree. You expect everyone to agree with you. That's not to mature if you ask me.
Last edited by SlickRick1; 03-17-2009 at 02:47 PM..
Wow this is really getting sad. Now you are going to dictate what a skyrise is. I've seen everything now. I don't define skyrises. I am going by what emporis and other sites are saying. Apparently Toronto half the metro of Chi-town has twice as many. Thats funny if you ask me. Lol...
By the way, I don't think New Yorkers are threatened with anything Chicago. Its alot of Chicago people with an inferiority complex. They want to claim their much smaller city is superior all the time. Trust me, its hilarious. How would you like to hear people from ST. Paul constantly talking about how much better their city is than Chicago? Or that their skyline is superior, etc, etc, and that it should even win a "mega" skyline competition. I mean seriously, its getting pathetic. As far as some of those cities you mentioned, as far as I know the only one that has more highrises than NY is Hong Kong. So I really don't know where you got your information for all of those other cities.
As far as immature, any comment that rings truth to you or that you don't like, you label as immature, when frankly I think that there is alot of immaturity on CD from both sides. We have to agree to disagree. You expect everyone to agree with you. That's not to mature if you ask me.
So, if you feel so superior, why are you compelled to knock down Chicago and take away something (architecture/skyline)that arguably -- at the very least-- puts them on equal footing with NYC. Does the challenge to NYC pre-eminence make you uncomfortable? Is it insecurity?
Look, most people who know anything about skylines and architecure will choose New York City, Chicago and Hong Kong as the greatest skylines-- not necessarily in that order. this is generally accepted. These skylines are typically chosen because of height, size, quality, spacing and mass. Again, no order intended. Likewise, most-- though not all-- won't choose Sao Paulo, or LA or even Toronto.
Roboto's point was pretty dead-on. I have seen most of the bashing coming from the New York side, albeit some Chicagoans knock (and often erroneously) many NYC attributes. From what I've witnessed, most Chicagoans seem to be defending their ground rather than attacking another city, unless provoked.
I don't speak for others, but I can say I've never come out and directly said Chicago is better than New York, other than a vote-- which is the point of this thread.
Actually I notice a LOT more of people from other cities going on about Chicago pride and boosting than I actually see Chicagoans make wild claims about the city. Chicagoans on here tend to be retorting against people flying off the hook and throwing out negativity.
Actually I notice a LOT more of people from other cities going on about Chicago pride and boosting than I actually see Chicagoans make wild claims about the city. Chicagoans on here tend to be retorting against people flying off the hook and throwing out negativity.
Wow this is really getting sad. Now you are going to dictate what a skyrise is. I've seen everything now. I don't define skyrises. I am going by what emporis and other sites are saying. Apparently Toronto half the metro of Chi-town has twice as many. Thats funny if you ask me. Lol...
By the way, I don't think New Yorkers are threatened with anything Chicago. Its alot of Chicago people with an inferiority complex. They want to claim their much smaller city is superior all the time. Trust me, its hilarious. How would you like to hear people from ST. Paul constantly talking about how much better their city is than Chicago? Or that their skyline is superior, etc, etc, and that it should even win a "mega" skyline competition. I mean seriously, its getting pathetic. As far as some of those cities you mentioned, as far as I know the only one that has more highrises than NY is Hong Kong. So I really don't know where you got your information for all of those other cities.
As far as immature, any comment that rings truth to you or that you don't like, you label as immature, when frankly I think that there is alot of immaturity on CD from both sides. We have to agree to disagree. You expect everyone to agree with you. That's not to mature if you ask me.
^Now, despite quoting it, you are simply ignoring practically everything in my statement. Do you think 12 stories shows up in a skyline (Im not sure what a skyrise is)? And dictating what a skyline is is part of judging whether you like a skyline or not - which is the entire point of this poll, is it not? If you are going to judge a skyline and give it a subjective opinion, you need criteria on which to judge it, do you not? So is 12 stories a part of your criteria in judging both the NYC and Chicago skylines? Because it is not a part of mine. I dont see those 12 story buildings when assessing either skyline.
Again, 12 stories is an arbitrary number that emporis uses to collect data. I can choose 700 feet and phase out just about every other skyline in the continent besides NYC and Chicago, but is that what is viewable in a skyline? This is all opinion anyway, but I want to know why you think 12 stories is a good cut-off point to assess a skyline - and you have not answered that. You merely said "emporis, and some other site...". So what? Other sites use 500 ft. That still doesnt answer the question.
Now, as far as Sao Paulo's highrise total, as well as that of Beijing, Seoul and Shanghai; this has been discussed on this exact thread before. You can rehash this if you want. Emporis is an incomplete database, they employ researchers in various parts of the world to collect information on high-rises (what they define as blds over 12 stories). Unfortunately, they do not have many researchers in Asia and South America. However, people in cities all over these regions have cited newspaper sources and other media (not emporis), as well as their own empirical evidence, that suggest these cities have thousands more highrises than even NYC and Hong Kong do. Often you can simply look at an arial of these cities and can tell. This is well known for skyscraper enthusiasts like myself and other. Estimates Ive seen are - Sao Paulo is over 40K bldgs >12 stories, Shanghai, Beijing and Seoul are over 10k by some estimates. Whatever. The point is, many of these buildings I cant even tell make a significant impact on the skyline, because they are less than a certain threshold. Again, you keep bringing it up, so I must ask what is that threshold to you? Is it 12 stories because of emporis? Does emporis judge skylines? I cant tell a 12 story building when its among a bunch of 400'ers, but apparently you can.
As far as immaturity, there has been some on both sides. But the majority of these posts has been threatened NYC-ers attacking the city of Chicago, and the Chicagoans (and supporters) responding to try to prove them wrong. I have not read many flat-out attacks on NYC compared to those on Chicago.
And I expect people to agree with logic, and have tried to formulate a logical post which you have quoted above. If you or anyone else here cant agree with logic, and insist on unfair, off-topic and illogical attacks that cannot be supported, then that says more about you than it does about me. And that, my friend, is what I find sad.
^Now, despite quoting it, you are simply ignoring practically everything in my statement. Do you think 12 stories shows up in a skyline (Im not sure what a skyrise is)? And dictating what a skyline is is part of judging whether you like a skyline or not - which is the entire point of this poll, is it not? If you are going to judge a skyline and give it a subjective opinion, you need criteria on which to judge it, do you not? So is 12 stories a part of your criteria in judging both the NYC and Chicago skylines? Because it is not a part of mine. I dont see those 12 story buildings when assessing either skyline.
Again, 12 stories is an arbitrary number that emporis uses to collect data. I can choose 700 feet and phase out just about every other skyline in the continent besides NYC and Chicago, but is that what is viewable in a skyline? This is all opinion anyway, but I want to know why you think 12 stories is a good cut-off point to assess a skyline - and you have not answered that. You merely said "emporis, and some other site...". So what? Other sites use 500 ft. That still doesnt answer the question.
Now, as far as Sao Paulo's highrise total, as well as that of Beijing, Seoul and Shanghai; this has been discussed on this exact thread before. You can rehash this if you want. Emporis is an incomplete database, they employ researchers in various parts of the world to collect information on high-rises (what they define as blds over 12 stories). Unfortunately, they do not have many researchers in Asia and South America. However, people in cities all over these regions have cited newspaper sources and other media (not emporis), as well as their own empirical evidence, that suggest these cities have thousands more highrises than even NYC and Hong Kong do. Often you can simply look at an arial of these cities and can tell. This is well known for skyscraper enthusiasts like myself and other. Estimates Ive seen are - Sao Paulo is over 40K bldgs >12 stories, Shanghai, Beijing and Seoul are over 10k by some estimates. Whatever. The point is, many of these buildings I cant even tell make a significant impact on the skyline, because they are less than a certain threshold. Again, you keep bringing it up, so I must ask what is that threshold to you? Is it 12 stories because of emporis? Does emporis judge skylines? I cant tell a 12 story building when its among a bunch of 400'ers, but apparently you can.
As far as immaturity, there has been some on both sides. But the majority of these posts has been threatened NYC-ers attacking the city of Chicago, and the Chicagoans (and supporters) responding to try to prove them wrong. I have not read many flat-out attacks on NYC compared to those on Chicago.
And I expect people to agree with logic, and have tried to formulate a logical post which you have quoted above. If you or anyone else here cant agree with logic, and insist on unfair, off-topic and illogical attacks that cannot be supported, then that says more about you than it does about me. And that, my friend, is what I find sad.
For one there is no way that Sao Paolo has that many highrises. You can argue that they aren't all counted for in New York as well. We can both spin the argument in any direction all day long to suit our own needs if we really want to. Also, I am not outright bashing Chicago, just as many of you are not just defending Chicago.
So many claim to be just defending Chicago, yet you attack NY in the process. I am not attacking Chicago. I've stated many times I think it is a good city. But come on. We have to be honest. It is much smaller than NY. More than twice. NY metro close to 22 million. Chicago 9. NY undoubtedly has almost six times as many more highrises. Weather you want to acknowledge this or not, it does make an impact, especially when judging a skyline withing the contents of a "mega" skyline. If it were just the "nicest" skyline, then I have nothing to say. You can claim that Chicago is nicer all day long, which you have. I wont say anything. Clearly that is your opinion. Just as I would prefer NY, which would be my opinion. I really don't have a problem with you or BigLake or most of you Chicago guys. BigLake is actually funny as shi t. Always cracks me up, however, I do wonder this fixation on the Jonas brothers...Lol
However, I will say that you guys are being a bit hypocritical. You laugh at Dementor for sticking up for NY and bashing Chicago and writing a lot of posts, yet you all do the same thing.. For every post he writes, there are two or three responses from the same Chicago guys. You always say, that you are " just sticking up for Chicago". Got to say, although admirable, who is it really hurting? I mean why do you feel the need to stick up for Chicago? No offense, but I don't think chicago needs sticking up for it. Most people already know that it is a good city. If someone doesn't acknowledge that fact, then who cares? Move on. Let them think whatever they want. It shouldn't have any impact on you one way or the other. That's one part of our crappy country we can be thankful for. We atleast still have freedom to our opinions(well somewhat debatable). Why do you care what anyone thinks about Chicago? The bottom line is we all have cities to which we prefer. I too am at fault for this sometimes, and I am certainly no exception to anything I have said.
But at the end of the day, it seems like we are all really just taking our aggressions out on each other for whatever reasons, which to say the least, probably have nothing to do with two cities. Lets try to keep our sensibilities through all of this. We all are becoming a bit irrational at times, just to make some silly point. For instance, if your talking mega, NY and Chicago should not even be in the same category. At least my thought process of "mega" is big, bunched, many. I can be wrong though. For every person is a different intrerpretation. Now, if your talking Nicest, then yeah, ok then, I can see no problem with you arguing your case. Let's atleast be realistic if we are going to argue like little children, (myself included).
For one there is no way that Sao Paolo has that many highrises. You can argue that they aren't all counted for in New York as well. We can both spin the argument in any direction all day long to suit our own needs if we really want to. Also, I am not outright bashing Chicago, just as many of you are not just defending Chicago.
So many claim to be just defending Chicago, yet you attack NY in the process. I am not attacking Chicago. I've stated many times I think it is a good city. But come on. We have to be honest. It is much smaller than NY. More than twice. NY metro close to 22 million. Chicago 9. NY undoubtedly has almost six times as many more highrises. Weather you want to acknowledge this or not, it does make an impact, especially when judging a skyline withing the contents of a "mega" skyline. If it were just the "nicest" skyline, then I have nothing to say. You can claim that Chicago is nicer all day long, which you have. I wont say anything. Clearly that is your opinion. Just as I would prefer NY, which would be my opinion. I really don't have a problem with you or BigLake or most of you Chicago guys. BigLake is actually funny as shi t. Always cracks me up, however, I do wonder this fixation on the Jonas brothers...Lol
However, I will say that you guys are being a bit hypocritical. You laugh at Dementor for sticking up for NY and bashing Chicago and writing a lot of posts, yet you all do the same thing.. For every post he writes, there are two or three responses from the same Chicago guys. You always say, that you are " just sticking up for Chicago". Got to say, although admirable, who is it really hurting? I mean why do you feel the need to stick up for Chicago? No offense, but I don't think chicago needs sticking up for it. Most people already know that it is a good city. If someone doesn't acknowledge that fact, then who cares? Move on. Let them think whatever they want. It shouldn't have any impact on you one way or the other. That's one part of our crappy country we can be thankful for. We atleast still have freedom to our opinions(well somewhat debatable). Why do you care what anyone thinks about Chicago? The bottom line is we all have cities to which we prefer. I too am at fault for this sometimes, and I am certainly no exception to anything I have said.
But at the end of the day, it seems like we are all really just taking our aggressions out on each other for whatever reasons, which to say the least, probably have nothing to do with two cities. Lets try to keep our sensibilities through all of this. We all are becoming a bit irrational at times, just to make some silly point. For instance, if your talking mega, NY and Chicago should not even be in the same category. At least my thought process of "mega" is big, bunched, many. I can be wrong though. For every person is a different intrerpretation. Now, if your talking Nicest, then yeah, ok then, I can see no problem with you arguing your case. Let's atleast be realistic if we are going to argue like little children, (myself included).
Metro sizes:
Chicago 10 million
NYC: 21-22
Obviously NYC is going to have more skyscrapers, it only seems natural. But the number means nothing. NYC has/had zero interest in aesthetics. Chicago just won't throw up a building before considering how it would flow with the rest of the city. Chicago has the "nicer" skyline, but NYC has the larger Skyline. Look at downtown Chicago though you would estimate it was a city of 5million+ not around 3 million.
Obviously NYC is going to have more skyscrapers, it only seems natural. But the number means nothing. NYC has/had zero interest in aesthetics. Chicago just won't throw up a building before considering how it would flow with the rest of the city. Chicago has the "nicer" skyline, but NYC has the larger Skyline. Look at downtown Chicago though you would estimate it was a city of 5million+ not around 3 million.
That exactly what it is. Chicago's skyline is just a facade spread out on the lake shore. Nothing else. Chicago did not have the need to build up, there was no lack of land. Chicago's skyline is single dimensional. there are certain angles from which it looks good but can't be compared to Manhattan where the skyline spreads out from lower to upper Manhattan and from Hudson to East River. Maybe that's why it seems so unimpressive. As someone already noted you could fit entire Chicago skyline into Central Park. It's just a facade on the lake.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
