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Economy and People are the two biggest and by people we mean numbers, outside of those two everything else is a personal opinion. D.C. is clearly in the same tier as Houston and Dallas without a doubt. Education of people is important but it isn't enough to put it up a tier. D.C is dense but it isn't even a Canadian City yet alone a European or Asian city dense for the density of the core too matter. New York, Chicago, LA and San Fran all have the economy advantage, when you add population, you can clearly see D.C is with Houston and Dallas. Also what is D.C outside of D.C,
Arlington, Alexandria. Compared to DFW outside of Central Dallas or Houston outside of the inner loop. What is city about the outer portions of the metros.
Yes, people, as in the people in DC are more educated, the people in DC have created a higher economic standing....DFW has a million more people and yet a lesser-to-even GDP. Houston has 650k more people but has a marginal lead in GDP. Clearly, the people in DC are producing more output...
So, what other factors make a city important?
It's sad that some people see nothing but productivity in others. Since its obvious that people mean nothing to you but their economic contribution and education, I think it's fair to say that our differences in opinion stem from our core beliefs. Let's agree to disagree. Or, if you are one to care about winning, you can say I cede the argument.
Not counting DC/Baltimore because they aren't really southern, either geographically or culturally, IMO.
Tier 1: the true Alpha cities of the South/Southeast
Houston
DFW--won't separate Ft. Worth, sorry
Atlanta
Miami
*huge gap*
Tier 2
Orlando
Charlotte
Tampa
San Antonio
*tiny gap*
Tier 3:the hot up-and-coming cities that could jump into Tier 2 soon
Austin
Raleigh/Durham
Nashville
*medium gap*
Tier 4: mostly the established/old south cities,
New Orleans
Oklahoma City
Birmingham
Richmond
Norfolk/VA Beach
Louisville (if it's even southern)
Jacksonville
Memphis
Greensboro/Winston-Salem
Tulsa
*small gap*
Tier 5: the mid-sized metros
Little Rock
Baton Rouge
Knoxville
Charleston
Columbia
Chattanooga
Jackson
Mobile
(probably others I'm forgetting)
It's hard to categorize cities in the Southeast because so many of them are growing so quickly. All of the Tier 1 through Tier 3 cities are growing significantly last time I checked.
I assume that were judging off CSAs, not MSAs, in what check case DC/Baltimore is #4, though it is Northeastern, not Southern.
You don't get a real idea of how either city/metro is performing using the CSA metric. I know that DC posters love using the CSA metric because it boosts their number on paper, however, in the real world, the Baltimore metro is a separate entity altogether. So, no, if those other cities out perform DC, asking for help from another metro isn't gonna make DC look better.
That is the ONLY reason that DC posters push this CSA nonsense.
You don't get a real idea of how either city/metro is performing using the CSA metric. I know that DC posters love using the CSA metric because it boosts their number on paper, however, in the real world, the Baltimore metro is a separate entity altogether. So, no, if those other cities out perform DC, asking for help from another metro isn't gonna make DC look better.
That is the ONLY reason that DC posters push this CSA nonsense.
I haven't seen DC posters pushing the use of CSAs. Nearly everyone in this thread, and in most threads, use the MSA so it was weird to see Western Urbanite say he assumed folks were using CSAs. That's not the norm around these parts, except for a few select metros like the Bay Area and Raleigh/Durham.
You have a real chip on your shoulder concerning DC. Just breathe man.
Not counting DC/Baltimore because they aren't really southern, either geographically or culturally, IMO.
Tier 1: the true Alpha cities of the South/Southeast
Houston
DFW--won't separate Ft. Worth, sorry
Atlanta
Miami
*huge gap*
Tier 2
Orlando
Charlotte
Tampa
San Antonio
*tiny gap*
Tier 3:the hot up-and-coming cities that could jump into Tier 2 soon
Austin
Raleigh/Durham
Nashville
*medium gap*
Tier 4: mostly the established/old south cities,
New Orleans
Oklahoma City
Birmingham
Richmond
Norfolk/VA Beach
Louisville (if it's even southern)
Jacksonville
Memphis
Greensboro/Winston-Salem
Tulsa
*small gap*
Tier 5: the mid-sized metros
Little Rock
Baton Rouge
Knoxville
Charleston
Columbia
Chattanooga
Jackson
Mobile
(probably others I'm forgetting)
It's hard to categorize cities in the Southeast because so many of them are growing so quickly. All of the Tier 1 through Tier 3 cities are growing significantly last time I checked.
I think Raleigh/Durham should be counted as one entity but Greensboro/Winston-Salem should be counted separately. They don't have the same sort of intraregional dynamic as places like the Triangle and Greensboro and Winston-Salem aren't really joined at the hip like that. As such, each belongs in Tier 5.
I think Raleigh/Durham should be counted as one entity but Greensboro/Winston-Salem should be counted separately. They don't have the same sort of intraregional dynamic as places like the Triangle and Greensboro and Winston-Salem aren't really joined at the hip like that. As such, each belongs in Tier 5.
That's reasonable. I was generally defaulting to CSAs for situations like this, but I agree that WS and Greensboro are fairly distinct cities.
Also I forgot about Greeneville/Spartanburg. I'm not as familiar with that metro other than driving through on the freeway, but I'd probably put them in Tier 5.
[quote=Mutiny77;47758567]I haven't seen DC posters pushing the use of CSAs. Nearly everyone in this thread, and in most threads, use the MSA so it was weird to see Western Urbanite say he assumed folks were using CSAs. That's not the norm around these parts, except for a few select metros like the Bay Area and Raleigh/Durham.
You have a real chip on your shoulder concerning DC. Just breathe man.
or the fact people dont agree with Baltimore's southerness. I stopped arguing with KB a long time ago.
That's reasonable. I was generally defaulting to CSAs for situations like this, but I agree that WS and Greensboro are fairly distinct cities.
Also I forgot about Greeneville/Spartanburg. I'm not as familiar with that metro other than driving through on the freeway, but I'd probably put them in Tier 5.
Usually the MSA is in view in these types of conversations; if you use CSA, it would change the entire order.
The Greenville MSA (minus Spartanburg) belongs in Tier 5, I agree with that. But the CSA (inclusive of Spartanburg) is just a bit smaller than the Triad CSA so on that basis, they would belong in the same tier.
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