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I guess I see it differently. For one thing, even though there's not one raucous strip of bars, restaurants and night spots, there are pockets of activity along Clifton, and even more to the south on that short stretch Detroit from W. 110th to W.117, including the famed Brothers night club... But I look for more in an attractive urban neighborhood than just places to sit on your arse to eat and drink. And the corner of the neighborhood bordering Lakewood, along W. 117, has a newer mix of stores with the bustling Lucky's supermarket meshed with the Chipotle's and the other bars, like the old Tick-Tock Tavern. The vibe is laid back, but vital; gay friendly and otherwise highly diverse, racially, ethnically and income-wise...
For me, I can just wander the streets looking at interesting, diverse architecture... and people. Egdewater, with its mix of Victorian woodframe homes to interesting brick walk-ups, with some row/terrace homes thrown in -- with a couple modern mid-rise apt complex-s thrown in -- and then the gorgeous mansions along Edgwater, Harbor Ct and, to a lesser degree, Lake Ave, is serious eye candy...
... and of course, with all that, you've got the amazing Beach on one end (with the fabulous new Metroparks beach house -- which actually features a bar upstairs) and handsome high-rises of Lakewood's Gold Coast, on the other... If I were a visitor to Cleveland, a neighborhood like Edgewater would be high on my list -- and I absolutely think Edgewater beats West Park/Kamm's Corner easily.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,313,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraris
Where exactly is "Downtown Lakewood"? Lakewood seems to have several "main streets" with Detroit, Madison, and W 117th, rather than a centralized core.
Downtown Lakewood, according to the signs the city has erected, is basically Detroit Avenue from about Bunts Road to about Arthur Avenue, with a bit of spillover onto Warren Road. The corner of Detroit and Warren is the historical center of town.
Downtown Lakewood has really come up in recent years from what it used to be. It's hip and trendy now. If only we could get rid of some of the crazies that wander through the area...
Downtown Lakewood, according to the signs the city has erected, is basically Detroit Avenue from about Bunts Road to about Arthur Avenue, with a bit of spillover onto Warren Road. The corner of Detroit and Warren is the historical center of town.
Downtown Lakewood has really come up in recent years from what it used to be. It's hip and trendy now. If only we could get rid of some of the crazies that wander through the area...
Thanks! That's definitely not the stretch of Detroit I would have suspected to be "downtown". Detroit and Bunts doesn't feel anywhere near as urban as a bunch of other spots in Lakewood.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,313,636 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraris
Thanks! That's definitely not the stretch of Detroit I would have suspected to be "downtown". Detroit and Bunts doesn't feel anywhere near as urban as a bunch of other spots in Lakewood.
To me, Detroit gets more of a "downtown" feel once you get west of the Westerly Apartments.
Personally, I never much cared for Detroit Avenue east of Bunts. It just seems like a random, jumbled-up hodgepodge of buildings of different architectural styles and vintages that don't really fit well together. I don't feel a sense of cohesiveness when I pass through.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,313,636 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraris
Thanks! That's definitely not the stretch of Detroit I would have suspected to be "downtown". Detroit and Bunts doesn't feel anywhere near as urban as a bunch of other spots in Lakewood.
There is another strip in Lakewood that the city has recently been promoting as "Uptown". It's basically the stretch of Madison Avenue between Warren Road and where Hilliard Road crosses. Some cool shops and eateries located here.
I guess I see it differently. For one thing, even though there's not one raucous strip of bars, restaurants and night spots, there are pockets of activity along Clifton, and even more to the south on that short stretch Detroit from W. 110th to W.117, including the famed Brothers night club... But I look for more in an attractive urban neighborhood than just places to sit on your arse to eat and drink. And the corner of the neighborhood bordering Lakewood, along W. 117, has a newer mix of stores with the bustling Lucky's supermarket meshed with the Chipotle's and the other bars, like the old Tick-Tock Tavern. The vibe is laid back, but vital; gay friendly and otherwise highly diverse, racially, ethnically and income-wise...
For me, I can just wander the streets looking at interesting, diverse architecture... and people. Egdewater, with its mix of Victorian woodframe homes to interesting brick walk-ups, with some row/terrace homes thrown in -- with a couple modern mid-rise apt complex-s thrown in -- and then the gorgeous mansions along Edgwater, Harbor Ct and, to a lesser degree, Lake Ave, is serious eye candy...
... and of course, with all that, you've got the amazing Beach on one end (with the fabulous new Metroparks beach house -- which actually features a bar upstairs) and handsome high-rises of Lakewood's Gold Coast, on the other... If I were a visitor to Cleveland, a neighborhood like Edgewater would be high on my list -- and I absolutely think Edgewater beats West Park/Kamm's Corner easily.
One major plus factor I missed about Edgewater: aside from the old mansion district along the lake, the neighborhood is definitely trending younger. I don't know that statistics, but I would bet the age demographics towards a younger residency are comparable to Ohio City, Tremont and University Circle/Little Italy (with all the college kids, grad students, medical residents and single faculty members).
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,313,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf
One major plus factor I missed about Edgewater: aside from the old mansion district along the lake, the neighborhood is definitely trending younger. I don't know that statistics, but I would bet the age demographics towards a younger residency are comparable to Ohio City, Tremont and University Circle/Little Italy (with all the college kids, grad students, medical residents and single faculty members).
I'm now finding myself wondering where all those younger people are when I'm in the neighborhood. Most of the people I see around are like 60-plus.
When I lived on the Gold Coast, it was a very Gay 90's type place. As in everyone living there was either gay or 90. It still is a Gay 90's type place, only now all the gays are 90.
More on why the Rapid is one aspect of Cleveland people take for granted or, stated another way, the Rapid is one of Cleveland's most underappreciated assets.
Proof? Ask yourself why:
- after 22 years (the Waterfront Line just celebrated that anniversary last month) at the end of the line (paradoxically called "South Harbor") there's a gigantic, ugly surface parking lot with no development at all? And on top of that, the lot (aka the Muny Lot) is a pay lot which offers no bennies for riding the adjacent rapid transit line -- you'd think the City and RTA would have gotten together and sponsored a program where, for example, if you pay to park at Muny, you get a free ride on the rail system -- but, noooo, not here in car-happy Cleveland. Maybe for Clevelanders its an honor to burn gas, waste time in traffic and scramble and pay to park your car... who knows?
- the City decided not to relocate the Port Authority's industrial terminal when it sits on prime Lakefront Land directly adjacent to the Waterfront Line?
- after the City finally tore down (and cleaned the land of) the giant vacant factory building that sat vacant for years 1/2 block from the West Blvd Red Line station in the densely populated Cudell/Edgewater neighborhoods that screams for serious TOD apartments and retail, RTA leases the land for a new ... dog kennel!?
- similarly along the below-the-surface/grade separated Blue/Green trunk line, at the E. 116th station, in the dense, improving Larchmere/St. Luke's neighborhood, instead of mixed-use apartment over retail development, land was developed for ... a small, 1-story U.S. Social Securities Administration building on one corner (next to the E. 116th Station) and an elementary school, on the other corner? -- really great, exciting TOD stuff, I'll tell ya...
-- When other cities would salivate having an LRT like the Waterfront Line connecting its downtown hub (Tower City/Public Square) to one its hottest new areas (if not THE hottest): Flats East Bank, with a 4-minute train ride (including direct, fast 1-seat service from the Shaker/Heights/Eastern suburbs area), RTA elects to cut WFL service and use trendy bus trolleys that, while they circulate through downtown nicely with free (corporate paid) service, get stuck in the oft heavy Flats traffic and don't directly connect with suburban areas (not to mention the fact that, to access a 1-seat ride into the Flats East Bank area, one has to walk 2-blocks north of Tower City and have to hail a westbound Trolley running along St. Clair? ... OR just sit and wait for an eastbound Trolley to leave, but then have to ride wayyyy out of your way as the Trolley has to circulate through E. 9th, Playhouse Square and CSU before doubling back and heading into the Flats -- all told, about 20-25 minutes time (when you factor in the C-Line Trolley's layover time at Tower City).
-- with most new apartments (either new construction or old building retrofits) that are adjacent to Rapid stops, why their websites barely even mention the Rapid -- and often times, don't mention the Rapid, at all?
-- why its cool for many people, including many young residents, to brag about how they never use the Rapid even if they live near a Rapid station when, in eastern cities (or Chicago) with older rail systems, and in sunbelt or other cities with new rail systems, riding the trains is cool and driving into their cities' downtown or trendy/crowded areas well served by rail, seems positively stupid to them?
... I could go on and on, but you get the picture. The question is, what's wrong with this picture (should be obvious)..
-- why its cool for many people, including many young residents, to brag about how they never use the Rapid even if they live near a Rapid station when, in eastern cities (or Chicago) with older rail systems, and in sunbelt or other cities with new rail systems, riding the trains is cool and driving into their cities' downtown or trendy/crowded areas well served by rail, seems positively stupid to them?
Does this really happen? I guess haven't been exposed to these people if they exist. It's certainly not an attitude I've run into in Shaker Heights or Shaker Square.
More on why the Rapid is one aspect of Cleveland people take for granted or, stated another way, the Rapid is one of Cleveland's most underappreciated assets.
Proof? Ask yourself why:
- after 22 years (the Waterfront Line just celebrated that anniversary last month) at the end of the line (paradoxically called "South Harbor") there's a gigantic, ugly surface parking lot with no development at all? And on top of that, the lot (aka the Muny Lot) is a pay lot which offers no bennies for riding the adjacent rapid transit line -- you'd think the City and RTA would have gotten together and sponsored a program where, for example, if you pay to park at Muny, you get a free ride on the rail system -- but, noooo, not here in car-happy Cleveland. Maybe for Clevelanders its an honor to burn gas, waste time in traffic and scramble and pay to park your car... who knows?
- the City decided not to relocate the Port Authority's industrial terminal when it sits on prime Lakefront Land directly adjacent to the Waterfront Line?
- after the City finally tore down (and cleaned the land of) the giant vacant factory building that sat vacant for years 1/2 block from the West Blvd Red Line station in the densely populated Cudell/Edgewater neighborhoods that screams for serious TOD apartments and retail, RTA leases the land for a new ... dog kennel!?
- similarly along the below-the-surface/grade separated Blue/Green trunk line, at the E. 116th station, in the dense, improving Larchmere/St. Luke's neighborhood, instead of mixed-use apartment over retail development, land was developed for ... a small, 1-story U.S. Social Securities Administration building on one corner (next to the E. 116th Station) and an elementary school, on the other corner? -- really great, exciting TOD stuff, I'll tell ya...
-- When other cities would salivate having an LRT like the Waterfront Line connecting its downtown hub (Tower City/Public Square) to one its hottest new areas (if not THE hottest): Flats East Bank, with a 4-minute train ride (including direct, fast 1-seat service from the Shaker/Heights/Eastern suburbs area), RTA elects to cut WFL service and use trendy bus trolleys that, while they circulate through downtown nicely with free (corporate paid) service, get stuck in the oft heavy Flats traffic and don't directly connect with suburban areas (not to mention the fact that, to access a 1-seat ride into the Flats East Bank area, one has to walk 2-blocks north of Tower City and have to hail a westbound Trolley running along St. Clair? ... OR just sit and wait for an eastbound Trolley to leave, but then have to ride wayyyy out of your way as the Trolley has to circulate through E. 9th, Playhouse Square and CSU before doubling back and heading into the Flats -- all told, about 20-25 minutes time (when you factor in the C-Line Trolley's layover time at Tower City).
-- with most new apartments (either new construction or old building retrofits) that are adjacent to Rapid stops, why their websites barely even mention the Rapid -- and often times, don't mention the Rapid, at all?
-- why its cool for many people, including many young residents, to brag about how they never use the Rapid even if they live near a Rapid station when, in eastern cities (or Chicago) with older rail systems, and in sunbelt or other cities with new rail systems, riding the trains is cool and driving into their cities' downtown or trendy/crowded areas well served by rail, seems positively stupid to them?
... I could go on and on, but you get the picture. The question is, what's wrong with this picture (should be obvious)..
Great post, but can't give you rep.
Your RTA leasing examples make RTA's complaints about the new campus of the Cuyahoga Community College seem somewhat hypocritical.
It would be great if you could put this information in an op-ed commentary at Cleveland.com, or at least send the comments to the editors at Cleveland.com, if you have to remain anonymous for work reasons, for whatever it's worth providing intelligent comments to the editors of Cleveland.com, who seem IMO more interested in bashing than serious journalism these days.
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