What Are the Things That Clevelanders Take for Granted? (Warren: transfer to, university)

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by TheProf

More on why the Rapid is one aspect of Cleveland people take for granted or, stated another way, the Rapid is one of Cleveland's most underappreciated assets.
Proof? Ask yourself why:

- after 22 years (the Waterfront Line just celebrated that anniversary last month) at the end of the line (paradoxically called "South Harbor") there's a gigantic, ugly surface parking lot with no development at all? And on top of that, the lot (aka the Muny Lot) is a pay lot which offers no bennies for riding the adjacent rapid transit line -- you'd think the City and RTA would have gotten together and sponsored a program where, for example, if you pay to park at Muny, you get a free ride on the rail system -- but, noooo, not here in car-happy Cleveland. Maybe for Clevelanders its an honor to burn gas, waste time in traffic and scramble and pay to park your car... who knows?

- the City decided not to relocate the Port Authority's industrial terminal when it sits on prime Lakefront Land directly adjacent to the Waterfront Line?

- after the City finally tore down (and cleaned the land of) the giant vacant factory building that sat vacant for years 1/2 block from the West Blvd Red Line station in the densely populated Cudell/Edgewater neighborhoods that screams for serious TOD apartments and retail, RTA leases the land for a new ... dog kennel!?

- similarly along the below-the-surface/grade separated Blue/Green trunk line, at the E. 116th station, in the dense, improving Larchmere/St. Luke's neighborhood, instead of mixed-use apartment over retail development, land was developed for ... a small, 1-story U.S. Social Securities Administration building on one corner (next to the E. 116th Station) and an elementary school, on the other corner? -- really great, exciting TOD stuff, I'll tell ya...

-- When other cities would salivate having an LRT like the Waterfront Line connecting its downtown hub (Tower City/Public Square) to one its hottest new areas (if not THE hottest): Flats East Bank, with a 4-minute train ride (including direct, fast 1-seat service from the Shaker/Heights/Eastern suburbs area), RTA elects to cut WFL service and use trendy bus trolleys that, while they circulate through downtown nicely with free (corporate paid) service, get stuck in the oft heavy Flats traffic and don't directly connect with suburban areas (not to mention the fact that, to access a 1-seat ride into the Flats East Bank area, one has to walk 2-blocks north of Tower City and have to hail a westbound Trolley running along St. Clair? ... OR just sit and wait for an eastbound Trolley to leave, but then have to ride wayyyy out of your way as the Trolley has to circulate through E. 9th, Playhouse Square and CSU before doubling back and heading into the Flats -- all told, about 20-25 minutes time (when you factor in the C-Line Trolley's layover time at Tower City).

-- with most new apartments (either new construction or old building retrofits) that are adjacent to Rapid stops, why their websites barely even mention the Rapid -- and often times, don't mention the Rapid, at all?

-- why its cool for many people, including many young residents, to brag about how they never use the Rapid even if they live near a Rapid station when, in eastern cities (or Chicago) with older rail systems, and in sunbelt or other cities with new rail systems, riding the trains is cool and driving into their cities' downtown or trendy/crowded areas well served by rail, seems positively stupid to them?

... I could go on and on, but you get the picture. The question is, what's wrong with this picture (should be obvious)..

These are great observations and if you can think of more, personally, I'd be happy to hear them (frustrating as it is). I agree with WRnative that you should write some of this to the PD.

I get on Clevelanders for not using a pretty good train system right in front of them, but at the same time, I can't ignore the fact that the RTA/City/State makes it probably as unattractive an option as they can, given all these various terrible decisions. I would love to see the day when living on the Rapid is a commonly desirable thing. Truly, I have never heard anyone (except on forums like these) brag about living near the rapid. Even people I knew a few years ago who lived in places like Ohio City Little Italy never mentioned the rapid.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Great post, but can't give you rep.

Your RTA leasing examples make RTA's complaints about the new campus of the Cuyahoga Community College seem somewhat hypocritical.

It would be great if you could put this information in an op-ed commentary at Cleveland.com, or at least send the comments to the editors at Cleveland.com, if you have to remain anonymous for work reasons, for whatever it's worth providing intelligent comments to the editors of Cleveland.com, who seem IMO more interested in bashing than serious journalism these days.

Good idea. Also there's got to be some kind of forum; blog associated with RTA where folks can share this stuff, directly. NOW is the time to move on this since they have essentially booted Joe Calabrese -- he's out in a couple months -- they'll be looking for new leadership/direction as well as determining what fundraising tools they should put on the ballot, in the form of a new tax proposal.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

These are great observations and if you can think of more, personally, I'd be happy to hear them (frustrating as it is). I agree with WRnative that you should write some of this to the PD.

I get on Clevelanders for not using a pretty good train system right in front of them, but at the same time, I can't ignore the fact that the RTA/City/State makes it probably as unattractive an option as they can, given all these various terrible decisions. I would love to see the day when living on the Rapid is a commonly desirable thing. Truly, I have never heard anyone (except on forums like these) brag about living near the rapid. Even people I knew a few years ago who lived in places like Ohio City Little Italy never mentioned the rapid.

Things are getting better -- a little bit, anyway. I was actually shocked the other day to see a relative crowd of evening rush hour commuters waiting at the Flats East Bank station on the WFL. (no "Ghost Train" this time)... Also we have to be heartened by the concentrated TOD projects that have/are been/being built. The relocated Little Italy-UC station is simply explosive with TOD development. The fabulous Uptown development along Euclid was built as TOD, while, a block away, the very substantial Centric mixed-use apts-over-retail is just now occupying some apts while work continues... Centric is flush with the RR/Rapid tracks @ Mayfield Rd. Then there's LI's Quattro (https://www.apartmentlist.com/oh/cle...a-little-italy) a sizable condo (I believe) project in its own right, with the substantial, very attractive La Collina apt in-fill (on the old Golden Bowl site) currently rising on the, already, very dense Mayfield, LI strip

Of course we have Flats East Bank and the new Van Aken TOD project rising (FEB Phase III was recently rolled out and is not far from ground breaking -- and slowly but surely, a few more people appear to be taking the Rapid there; certainly they do in droves where there are sponsored FEB festivals and events, like the now-annual Taste of Summer over Memorial Day weekend.

So things are looking up.

[TheProf]

^btw, note that Quattro's website strongly touts its close-to-the-Rapid location... Good for them!

Quattro Condos | Luxury Living in Cleveland Ohio | New Construction

[kpl1228]

1. Healthcare. Move somewhere else and you'll see what I mean.
2. Metroparks. they're appreciated and bragged about but so many are untouched during the week.
3. The Lake. There's people in southern suburbs whose toes have never once touched Lake Erie water.
4. RTA. Everyone gripes about it and treats it like a punching bag, but that's public transit pretty much nationally in the court of public opinion. Always room for improvement (and lately it's kind of squirrely politically and budget-wise) but thank god it's there.

[Larry Siegel]

Originally Posted by adam36

I live along the blue line. It would take me at least an hour to get to my work at University Circle using the train. Thus, I'll take the 10 min. drive. If the Van Swearingen's had a crystal ball, they'd have realized that education and healthcare would be driving economic forces in the present era, and I'm sure they'd have readjusted the rail lines accordingly. Regardless, I agree it's too bad that mass transit is not more highly adopted here, though.

The Vans may not have thought that the Shaker rapids should swing north and pick up University Circle but somebody else might have figured that out in the last 80 years. Would it really have been that hard?

[Larry Siegel]

Originally Posted by averysgore

The inner-ring suburban housing stock. And not just the mansions around Fairmount etc., but the more modest homes too. I like all the Tudor houses, and even the smaller A-frame bungalows, in their walkable grids with usually enough greenery.

That sort of housing stock skipped right over North Jersey. Seriously, try to find it, let alone find it in at a reasonable price point.

That sort of housing stock skipped over the NYC suburbs because it's in the boroughs, some of which became slums but they're mostly nicer now. For great suburban housing stock on the east coast, you have to go to Boston, Philly, or Washington. (Boston's the best one.)

[Larry Siegel]

Originally Posted by ferraris

I know the money isn't there, but is there a feasible path to build a connecting rail line between UC and the Blue/Green line? It seems like the grading would be all off, but as the crow flies it's not even a mile and a half between the Cedar-University Red Line stop and Shaker Square/E 116th/Buckeye-Woodhill Blue/Green stops. Even sharing the road in a "train lane" might be a reasonable solution for such a short connecting leg.

The train could just run straight up King Drive. It's not rocket science. Trains run in the street in San Francisco and all over Europe.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Larry Siegel

The Vans may not have thought that the Shaker rapids should swing north and pick up University Circle but somebody else might have figured that out in the last 80 years. Would it really have been that hard?

Well, I don't know for a fact, but Cleveland had an expansive streetcar network. Wasn't UC already served without the VS bros?

They also thought Fairmount Circle (my home!) would become a major center of Cleveland, a "Second University Circle": https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/417

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Larry Siegel

The train could just run straight up King Drive. It's not rocket science. Trains run in the street in San Francisco and all over Europe.

Trains in the street are not great. They accomplish nothing a bus can't do (and better).