That 18 mile stretch of I-25 from Monument to Castle Rock (Denver: maintenance, living)

[SpringsF6B]

Lightning is correct there was absolutely no mention of tolls on the ballot. Had I known I would have voted one big fat NO. That ballot had to be illegal - somehow - as I believe it was purposefully misrepresented. I really want my vote back. I am a liberal and this type of thing makes me want to vote NO on everything just because in the back of my mind I now suspect lies and thievery.

How will these lanes help? Have you ever been to Denver? Horrendous driving conditions - some of the worst I have ever driven on ( and I lived in Houston for a couple of years ) stop and go traffic constantly while the express lanes remain mostly unused. Look at 470 - the entire freeway sits empty with almost everyone using 225. I want to know how anyone thinks that this will solve traffic congestion if no one will drive on them. It's really good for rich people - they get to zoom straight thru while we are still in the same soup.

Some one mentioned that since it is a pay as you go plan, that somehow makes it fair. I would like to point out that these lanes as paid for by everyone's tax dollars even tough most of us will not be able to afford to use them. As usual, poor and middle class people pay and corporate execs and the rich get the benefits.

Since US36 express lanes were referenced, does anyone have actual numbers as to what percentage of total traffic use the express lanes? Not positive but I think that this is 3 lanes with one being a toll road. If 20% percent of the traffic used the express lanes I might change my mind as that could actually reduce congestion. I suspect that the number is more like 5%. I would be very interested in find out.

[YoYoSpin]

Why don't people use the toll roads and express lanes in Colorado? It's really very simple...too darn expensive. For example, Denver's E470 is the 6th most expensive toll road in the entire country, coming in at 33 cents per mile. Click here to read about it: 11 Most Expensive Toll Roads in America

[DoodlemomCoS]

Originally Posted by SpringsF6B

Lightning is correct there was absolutely no mention of tolls on the ballot. Had I known I would have voted one big fat NO. That ballot had to be illegal - somehow - as I believe it was purposefully misrepresented. I really want my vote back. I am a liberal and this type of thing makes me want to vote NO on everything just because in the back of my mind I now suspect lies and thievery.

How will these lanes help? Have you ever been to Denver? Horrendous driving conditions - some of the worst I have ever driven on ( and I lived in Houston for a couple of years ) stop and go traffic constantly while the express lanes remain mostly unused. Look at 470 - the entire freeway sits empty with almost everyone using 225. I want to know how anyone thinks that this will solve traffic congestion if no one will drive on them. It's really good for rich people - they get to zoom straight thru while we are still in the same soup.

Some one mentioned that since it is a pay as you go plan, that somehow makes it fair. I would like to point out that these lanes as paid for by everyone's tax dollars even tough most of us will not be able to afford to use them. As usual, poor and middle class people pay and corporate execs and the rich get the benefits.

Since US36 express lanes were referenced, does anyone have actual numbers as to what percentage of total traffic use the express lanes? Not positive but I think that this is 3 lanes with one being a toll road. If 20% percent of the traffic used the express lanes I might change my mind as that could actually reduce congestion. I suspect that the number is more like 5%. I would be very interested in find out.

This is exactly what I meant when I said it won’t really reduce congestion. Other posters think it will but I disagree as I don’t think many folks will pay to use the toll lane.

[BornintheSprings]

Originally Posted by DoodlemomCoS

This is exactly what I meant when I said it won’t really reduce congestion. Other posters think it will but I disagree as I don’t think many folks will pay to use the toll lane.

This is one of the problems of being to dependent on automobiles for transporting people we need options like high speed rail...

[SpringsF6B]

DoodleMom, That's exactly why I would like to see the statistics from US36. This would tell us what to expect. I'm pretty sure that this will not support the thought that a toll road would reduce congestion. If they did, C-dot would have already released the data.

[jburress]

Originally Posted by iowegian54

I used to say Colorado was just "Missouri With Mountains®" (and marijuana) but that's too insulting to Missourians.

Sure, there's plenty of waste in state government here as with any state. But it seems when it comes to things that affect daily quality of life, Colorado takes the cheap route every time. Just as screwed up as California, but it least it has an ocean.

Sadly, out-migration from CO will continue. While the land is beautiful, the state blows.

This post is one of the dumbest things I've ever read here.

[ponyupgrl]

Originally Posted by SpringsF6B

DoodleMom, That's exactly why I would like to see the statistics from US36. This would tell us what to expect. I'm pretty sure that this will not support the thought that a toll road would reduce congestion. If they did, C-dot would have already released the data.

The top priority of CDOT for the expansion (according to the meeting last week) was to provide an opportunity for a reliable trip. They believe that creating another regular lane will only temporarily reduce congestion, but turn back into a parking lot very quickly. Adding any more than one lane would have been a much longer project, since they'd have to acquire extra land on one or both sides of the road vs. using the existing footprint.

They did show some data at the meeting from I-70 where the extra toll supposedly reduced congestion in regular lanes as well. You could probably request a copy of this.

[SpringsF6B]

Not sure I understand. Please explain how a toll lane produces a reliable trip while a lane which everyone can drive on will 'turn back into a parking lot very quickly'. I just can't see this logic.

[bluescreen73]

Originally Posted by SpringsF6B

Not sure I understand. Please explain how a toll lane produces a reliable trip while a lane which everyone can drive on will 'turn back into a parking lot very quickly'. I just can't see this logic.

The toll lane is all about speed and profit.

In theory, if the added lane is free, induced demand will cause it to fill up and traffic throughput to only improve slightly. When they pair the toll lane with "peak volume pricing/demand tolling" it's social engineering at its best.

With peak demand tolling, the cost of the toll lane goes up as the average speed of the lane goes down. This is designed to move cars out of the toll lane and back into the free main lanes to keep the toll lane moving at or above a prescribed speed. It's a game whose main goals are to a) allow the haves the ability to buy their way out of congestion and b) make mass transit more viable (because buses use the toll lane as well). Easing congestion in the main lanes over the short term is more of a nice to have than a need to have.

[Lightning_Hunter]

Originally Posted by bluescreen73

The toll lane is all about speed and profit.

In theory, if the added lane is free, induced demand will cause it to fill up and traffic throughput to only improve slightly. When they pair the toll lane with "peak volume pricing/demand tolling" it's social engineering at its best.

With peak demand tolling, the cost of the toll lane goes up as the average speed of the lane goes down. This is designed to move cars out of the toll lane and back into the free main lanes to keep the toll lane moving at or above a prescribed speed. It's a game whose main goals are to a) allow the haves the ability to buy their way out of congestion and b) make mass transit more viable (because buses use the toll lane as well). Easing congestion in the main lanes over the short term is more of a nice to have than a need to have.

In other words, the government is using a social experiment to discourage us from driving so the roads won't become a "parking lot" - or we can pay a toll. Just leave it up to the good ol' government to decide what we need and don't need.

We all know that argument isn't the truth, though. Lets face it: they saw a bunch of $$$ signs by putting in toll lanes. Politicians are merely trying to convince us that toll lanes will somehow psychologically trick people in to not driving, which will in turn miraculously free up the interstate. That is another one of those bogus arguments that I'm sure they don't even believe themselves.