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(For some reason I've never been able to understand, horse folks seem the least prone to over-anthromorphosizng their animals and treating them too sentimentally. Maybe because it's impossible in the course of learning how to ride and train to NOT learn just how innately dangerous horses are?)
I'm not sure how one can be around horses and not learn their body language. I guess once you have been kicked, pinned or nipped or have had to handle big feet, administer meds, or stick a thermometer up ones butt you learn pretty quick to pick up on those little cues. And they can still be tricky little (big) turds.
Its harder with dogs perhaps because they are pets and companions and we spend a lot of time with them. People really need to always be mindful that animals are animals and do not perceive, think or react like humans.
But there are similarities in the results/behaviors of the horse and dog related to the methodology in caring for them (even though I think horses are more like cats). The difference between a stallion and gelding and a intact male and neutered one. Stallions can be unpredictable and aggressive much more so than geldings as an intact male can be more so than a neutered one. The difference in a horse that is handled frequently and one left to pasture is similar to the difference between a dog with training and socialization compared to one who has been neglected.
Control over the animal should be established in the beginning by how the animal is handled, if not then you have a potentially dangerous animal and a big problem. I don't know in these dog attacks how much control the owners ever had over their animal. Often the articles state the dog was unrestrained or intact, left unattended with children or in this case playing keep away with bones. In the recent Rottweiler attack two intact males were together with in heat females. To me this indicates lack of control.
If I had not gelded my horses, handled them properly and trained them to some extent and let them roam the neighborhood I suppose the probably that someone could have gotten hurt would be much higher.
Never cared for handling studs. Had my fill of it though. Thing is OUR studs had manners. . I have to disagree a big on the horse/cat comparison. Horses, properly handled and trained, are far more tractable. Cats don't submit to anyone. Lol. With horses, our tactic, should they want to fight, was setting them up so as tbey fought themselves. Good quality, soft cotton rope was always on hand.
Then , after they had wore themselves out, pulling yanking , what have you, we would step in and be their savior. BUT, whatever happened , it had to be set up so as we were not directly acting against the animal. No holding onto the lines or anything. The animal was fighting itself. Our only role was to succor, after they have had enough. Very rarely did this not work. Only with olderanimals that bad gotten away with breaking tthings , and people bad tried to muscle about. That teaches them they can win. Bad news.
These dogs at issue here...I don't think such methods would work. Especially on unaltered, adult males. Horses don't have the same kind of ...territorial...instincts. I've never had a horse get aggressive toward me for sticking my hands in their feed box . It was paramount that we made being caught and haltered, and having human contact, a positive thing. Associating such with brushing and other pleasant things. Positive reenforcement works differently for dogs, and one that has lived having to fight for food , takes away a prime tool. They won't be wanting to be patient at feeding time, instead attacking and taking it on their terms. Again, not good.
I'm thinking that building trust and a positive view of people would be quite difficult with a powerful dog that has grown up having to scratch and claw its way. The fight will always be there. A horse will give up fighting. These dogs won't quit till they're dead. And they way "breeding" is done in so many pathetic cases...oh my! I must say, I would rather try and rehab a horse than a dog. Done properly, its safer, I think. That's why there are chutes, squeezes and ropes. Barrier and restraint seperation. I've never seen such things used for dogs. Only counterproductively. Trust and complete( as possible anyway) control is needed, a d dogs require working without barrier separation. That would make me nervous.
I mean...it is a direct and valid correlation....very high incidence of homicide from a very small population.
So I'm curious...why does the media hate pit bulls and love Black people? Why does NexusLexus hate pit bulls and constantly make excuses for Black murder rates?
I wonder....
I don't hate pit bulls. I just wouldn't own one or want one living next door. They have a pre-genetic disposition to to be unsafe in comprison to most other domestic dog breeds. For starters, they are very powerful dogs capable of inflicting more damage than most other breeds. Add to this the fact that they are wired to continue attacking until their prey is dead, and you have an animal that shouldn't ever be someones's "pet." It doesn't mean that they can't be good pets, but to say they're not a high risk breed in regards to being dangerous is just being irresponsible or ignorant. Statistically, most of the people that get mauled by these animals are children or owners that didn't believe their dogs were dangerous. The thug/drug dealer types or people that train them to fight are well aware of what their dogs are capable of and unfortunately never seem to get mauled by them.
I don't hate black people either, but I recognize that they are statistically more likely to be violent, steal, rape etc. It is for this reason that I would never live in a predominately black area, and I tend to be more wary when around them. The difference between black people and pit bulls is that I don't believe black people are genetically wired to be dangerous. I believe they are mostly a product of their environment. I would not fear a black family moving in next door because I live in a nice neighborhood. I would still fear a pit bull living next door because I think they're still dangerous (to a much lesser degree) even in a loving environment. No matter how well that dog may be treated, there is still a much higher risk of it killing my 12lb dog if it made it into my yard. Combine that with the fact that I would question how responsible the owners were for owning the dog in the first place, and I would not feel good about the situation.
This is an interesting thread, as always, though so much of the ground has been covered before.
I am terrified of the Pitt Bull type dog.
My 40 something year old daughter recently waded into a fight between a dog that looked like a mixed breed pitbull and a cocker spaniel. The cocker was on the ground and was getting his ear pulled off. My daughter, an RN, tried to intervene because a young girl was screaming about the dogs fighting and others were standing around watching. The Pittie type wouldn't let go of the cocker until she finally got a board from someone and she started beating the pittie to make it turn loose. She walked the girl and the dog home because the girl was hysterical and that her family was going to be really, really, really mad at her.....
First of all, I told her she did absolutely the wrong thing by attempting to pull the dog off. That dog could have turned on her and ripped her face open. Her reason was that he was killing the cocker.......
Having said all of that, her current husband had a Doberman when they married. He was the most beautiful, magnificent animal I have ever seen, bar none. He wasn't a warlock but he was close to it, JMO. He was a big baby. All he wanted was to be loved and petted.....but he was so big, he was intimidating and then he would lick you to death if he got close to you. Her husband said he checked out his blood lines carefully before he bought him as a puppy as he didn't want an aggressive dog around his family. He was the sweetest thing.
An additional note, my dumb SIL never had him fixed and the dog never showed signs of aggression that I knew of. Additionally, my DSIL never gave him much training, and the dog was raised around a house full of children.
He passed away a couple of years ago and I miss him still. RIP Rellik.
I am trying to make the point that dogs that have a bad rep don't always deserve it. From what I have read, at one time, Dobs were bred, raised and trained to be guard dogs. They could become vicious. From my experience, one dog I know, but this dog was highly vetted before he was purchased and never proved to show any signs of bad behavior in less than ideal conditions. I think Pitts have been bred for some time for their most aggressive natures and they have lost most of any original gentleness they might have had. It makes me feel bad for the breed but I wouldn't have one on a bet.
Never cared for handling studs. Had my fill of it though. Thing is OUR studs had manners. . I have to disagree a big on the horse/cat comparison. Horses, properly handled and trained, are far more tractable. Cats don't submit to anyone. Lol. With horses, our tactic, should they want to fight, was setting them up so as tbey fought themselves. Good quality, soft cotton rope was always on hand.
Then , after they had wore themselves out, pulling yanking , what have you, we would step in and be their savior. BUT, whatever happened , it had to be set up so as we were not directly acting against the animal. No holding onto the lines or anything. The animal was fighting itself. Our only role was to succor, after they have had enough. Very rarely did this not work. Only with olderanimals that bad gotten away with breaking tthings , and people bad tried to muscle about. That teaches them they can win. Bad news.
These dogs at issue here...I don't think such methods would work. Especially on unaltered, adult males. Horses don't have the same kind of ...territorial...instincts. I've never had a horse get aggressive toward me for sticking my hands in their feed box . It was paramount that we made being caught and haltered, and having human contact, a positive thing. Associating such with brushing and other pleasant things. Positive reenforcement works differently for dogs, and one that has lived having to fight for food , takes away a prime tool. They won't be wanting to be patient at feeding time, instead attacking and taking it on their terms. Again, not good.
I'm thinking that building trust and a positive view of people would be quite difficult with a powerful dog that has grown up having to scratch and claw its way. The fight will always be there. A horse will give up fighting. These dogs won't quit till they're dead. And they way "breeding" is done in so many pathetic cases...oh my! I must say, I would rather try and rehab a horse than a dog. Done properly, its safer, I think. That's why there are chutes, squeezes and ropes. Barrier and restraint seperation. I've never seen such things used for dogs. Only counterproductively. Trust and complete( as possible anyway) control is needed, a d dogs require working without barrier separation. That would make me nervous.
I agree, but what you are describing it seems are animal that have already got to the point of being dangerous. With dogs the most humane thing would be to put them down. I'm sure there are some people who could take on the challenge but I'm sure not one of them. Dogs should never get to that point. Neither horses or dogs handled and trained properly from the beginning don't, with the exception of those with some neurological problems.
I agree about studs. I rescued a mustang colt who appeared to have been gelded. He was very gentle and easy to work with until one fine day he turned into a demon. I had to carry a bat when I went into the pasture. Had some blood work done and found out he had retained testicles. Had those puppies cut out. He settled back down or I would have had him put down.
Here are some dogs I think of as pit bulls (and one who is not a pit). They're being trained in a Philadelphia prison to pass the American Kennel Club's Good Canine Citizen test. They don't look scary to me. I wouldn't want to own one, though, because I fear -- sensibly, IMO -- that one might someday turn on me. But they're as cute as can be.
Here are some dogs I think of as pit bulls (and one who is not a pit). They're being trained in a Philadelphia prison to pass the American Kennel Club's Good Canine Citizen test. They don't look scary to me. I wouldn't want to own one, though, because I fear -- sensibly, IMO -- that one might someday turn on me. But they're as cute as can be.
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. In the recent Rottweiler attack two intact males were together with in heat females. To me this indicates lack of control. 
. I have to disagree a big on the horse/cat comparison. Horses, properly handled and trained, are far more tractable. Cats don't submit to anyone. Lol. With horses, our tactic, should they want to fight, was setting them up so as tbey fought themselves. Good quality, soft cotton rope was always on hand. 
