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Interesting what people see - and don't see - through their own filters.
I know for a fact that MANY people have stated specifically that Zimmerman should never have gotten out of his car. I've said that myself in real life and on this forum, and heard it myself from people here on this forum, on other forums, in comments on articles, and in real life. I am amazed that you've never heard anyone say that.
Look, one way to practically assure that you won't be injured in an encounter with the police is to COOPERATE with their reasonable requests. For instance, I don't know or care whether or not it is "illegal" for the police to ask me to put out my hypothetical cigarette, but doggone it, if a police officer asks me to put my cigarette out, I'll just put it out. If he asks me to get out of the car, I'll just get out of the car. I don't smart off at them when I'm pulled over (and yes, this white lady gets pulled over - and occasionally gets a ticket too). I know to be polite and cooperative - two behaviors that Sandra Bland apparently didn't apply to her encounter with the police.
How about the officer follows the law, and the code of conduct of his own department? The officer is supposed to be the professional here, he is supposed to be trained to, and know how to, deescalate these situations, instead of doing what he did. You cannot convince me that she was the first person whom he has ever dealt with who refused to be meekly subservient. He was pissed off that she wasn't, and he decided to put her in her place.
It is all fine and well that you, Kathryn, are perfect, however, what does what you do when you get pulled over have to do with this situation? Please advise me where and when it became illegal for a person to be peeved off that they got pulled over? When it was ok for an officer to not follow his department's code of conduct, or illegally extend a traffic stop? What you, and others, refuse to absorb here, is that even when a person is unpleasant, this does not give the officer the right, nor does it make it legal, for that officer to escalate the situation into one where an unarmed citizen is being harassed for no good reason, other than to boost his ego and assert his dominance.
How about the officer follows the law, and the code of conduct of his own department? The officer is supposed to be the professional here, he is supposed to be trained to, and know how to, deescalate these situations, instead of doing what he did. You cannot convince me that she was the first person whom he has ever dealt with who refused to be meekly subservient. He was pissed off that she wasn't, and he decided to put her in her place.
It is all fine and well that you, Kathryn, are perfect, however, what does what you do when you get pulled over have to do with this situation? Please advise me where and when it became illegal for a person to be peeved off that they got pulled over? When it was ok for an officer to not follow his department's code of conduct, or illegally extend a traffic stop? What you, and others, refuse to absorb here, is that even when a person is unpleasant, this does not give the officer the right, nor does it make it legal, for that officer to escalate the situation into one where an unarmed citizen is being harassed for no good reason, other than to boost his ego and assert his dominance.
LOL If I was "perfect" I wouldn't ever get pulled over in the first place. All I am saying is that when I do get pulled over (which probably happens about once a year since I drive a lot), I don't get belligerent with the police officer. In other words, I don't act like Sandra Bland did. That doesn't mean I'm not irritated, or that I'm enjoying the conversation - it just means that I use COMMON SENSE AND COURTESY. After all, I can't control what other people do but I certainly can control my own actions.
Don't fight and argue with police officers, judges, etc. is the principle I learned while growing up, and one that's worked for me so far. Like I said, I've been pulled over and questioned by police or state troopers often. I've been ticketed or given warnings, but I've never been arrested - even though in one case (when someone had swapped my tags out), there was actually a warrant out for "my" arrest (the warrant was actually for whoever the tags belonged to - for years of unpaid parking tickets - LOL). Anyway, I managed to get that one straightened out (still had to pay a hefty fine for not having my own tags on my own car - what the heck! Someone stole my tags!) but my point is that during even this stop, when I realized that I had been a victim of a crime myself but was in danger of being arrested - I maintained my composure and was cooperative with the officer.
How about the officer follows the law, and the code of conduct of his own department? The officer is supposed to be the professional here, he is supposed to be trained to, and know how to, deescalate these situations, instead of doing what he did. You cannot convince me that she was the first person whom he has ever dealt with who refused to be meekly subservient. He was pissed off that she wasn't, and he decided to put her in her place.
It is all fine and well that you, Kathryn, are perfect, however, what does what you do when you get pulled over have to do with this situation? Please advise me where and when it became illegal for a person to be peeved off that they got pulled over? When it was ok for an officer to not follow his department's code of conduct, or illegally extend a traffic stop? What you, and others, refuse to absorb here, is that even when a person is unpleasant, this does not give the officer the right, nor does it make it legal, for that officer to escalate the situation into one where an unarmed citizen is being harassed for no good reason, other than to boost his ego and assert his dominance.
Some people are nasty and do not see when someone is being courteous to them. In fact, they see it as a weakness when someone is courteous to them in the face of their own rude behavior which further enables them in their attitude.
A P.O. is also trained to be proactive. If the PO believe this lady's attitude was due to impairment then it was his duty to proceed further, if he believed her attitude was due to her concealing contraband then it is also his duty to proceed.
Here in South Florida there have been a few cases of POs caught on video in PO vs citizen and even PO vs PO exchanges where the former were later reprimanded for their behavior. It depends on how the stop progresses. In this case, the officer was not asking anything I would consider unusual. Step out of the car. It is also on me as a law abiding citizen interested in the my own wellbeing not to escalate the situation to an arrestable offense.
Not quite. Her bail was $5,000 the fee that the bail bond company charges for writing the bond is $500 that is never refunded
Sounds like yet another good reason not to be belligerent with police officers. I'd hate to lose that money!
My teenage son got arrested once for possession of drug paraphernalia. He called me from jail late on a Friday night. He wanted me to post bond for him (if I recall, the amount I needed to come up with was $500 for the bail bond). I asked him if he had indeed had drug paraphernalia on him - and he said yes. I then asked to speak to the officer who was with him. I asked if he was in a safe place and he said yes, he was. I asked when he would see the judge and was told that the court date was Monday morning. I asked what would happen then and was told that since this was his first offense, he would almost certainly be released with "time served" or something like that.
So I asked to speak to him again and was allowed to do so. I told him to behave himself and I would see him Monday morning. Then the officer got back on the phone and thanked me and said, "I wish more parents would make the decision you just made, rather than making excuses for their kids."
Since he was indeed guilty, I let him spend the weekend in jail. Why should I spend $500 for him to come home and live in comfort till Monday morning when HE KNEW BETTER THAN TO BREAK THE LAW????
Sure enough, Monday morning came around and actually I think he got deferred adjudication or something like that - anyway, he was released and his record is now clean because apparently he learned his lesson and has never been arrested again. In fact, he told me that after spending one weekend in jail, and going through that system, he learned a few very valuable lessons which he has even thanked me for. The main lesson he learned was "don't do stuff that might land you in jail because jail sucks."
The deal in our family for generations has always been, "If you have actually committed the crime in question, don't expect anyone to bail you out." My dad didn't bail my brother out after a bar fight, and I didn't bail my son out after a night of partying with friends. If I am ever arrested due to my own behavior, I don't expect anyone to bail me out either. Since I don't want to spend the night in jail, this is pretty good incentive to behave myself.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 07-27-2015 at 08:08 AM..
LOL If I was "perfect" I wouldn't ever get pulled over in the first place. All I am saying is that when I do get pulled over (which probably happens about once a year since I drive a lot), I don't get belligerent with the police officer. In other words, I don't act like Sandra Bland did. That doesn't mean I'm not irritated, or that I'm enjoying the conversation - it just means that I use COMMON SENSE AND COURTESY. After all, I can't control what other people do but I certainly can control my own actions.
Don't fight and argue with police officers, judges, etc. is the principle I learned while growing up, and one that's worked for me so far. Like I said, I've been pulled over and questioned by police or state troopers often. I've been ticketed or given warnings, but I've never been arrested - even though in one case (when someone had swapped my tags out), there was actually a warrant out for "my" arrest (the warrant was actually for whoever the tags belonged to - for years of unpaid parking tickets - LOL). Anyway, I managed to get that one straightened out (still had to pay a hefty fine for not having my own tags on my own car - what the heck! Someone stole my tags!) but my point is that during even this stop, when I realized that I had been a victim of a crime myself but was in danger of being arrested - I maintained my composure and was cooperative with the officer.
It just wasn't all that difficult.
Right, and you walked away alive. This is key.
I believe the cop acted like an ass, and he probably should not have been at work that day. He probably shouldn't be a cop at all! But, I think it's important to be aware of how these situations can escalate, quickly...especially if you are part of a group that is often profiled. Why put yourself in a situation that will most definitely not end well for you?? Why verbally fight the ass hole cop?
From all of the recent stories of police brutality, you should KNOW that this will not end well for you. Is it worth it to mouth off to a cop and possibly end up dead? ...or is it better to get away from this situation alive, so that you can legally and safely fight this ass hole cop?
People need to think about self-preservation and stop being so damn reactive. I'm tired of hearing stories about black people getting killed in these situations.
I believe the cop acted like an ass, and he probably should not have been at work that day. But, I think it's important to be aware of how these situations can escalate, quickly...especially if you are part of a group that is often profiled. Why put yourself in a situation that will most definitely not end well for you?? Why verbally fight the ass hole cop?
From all of the recent stories of police brutality, you should KNOW that this will not end well for you. Is it worth it to mouth off to a cop and possibly end up dead? ...or is it better to get away from this situation alive, so you can legally and safely fight this ass hole cop?
People need to think about self-preservation and stop being so reactive. I'm tired of hearing stories about black people getting killed in these situations.
My mother always told me to never argue or fight with an officer. If you feel that officer violated your rights or whatever then take them to court with evidence. There is plenty technology out there where you can record the stop yourself without the officer even knowing. I'm always polite with a smile on my face even when encountering an *******. Courts is where you take the fight not the street
My mother always told me to never argue or fight with an officer. If you feel that officer violated your rights or whatever then take them to court with evidence. There is plenty technology out there where you can record the stop yourself without the officer even knowing. I'm always polite with a smile on my face even when encountering an *******. Courts is where you take the fight not the street
LOL If I was "perfect" I wouldn't ever get pulled over in the first place. All I am saying is that when I do get pulled over (which probably happens about once a year since I drive a lot), I don't get belligerent with the police officer. In other words, I don't act like Sandra Bland did. That doesn't mean I'm not irritated, or that I'm enjoying the conversation - it just means that I use COMMON SENSE AND COURTESY. After all, I can't control what other people do but I certainly can control my own actions.
Don't fight and argue with police officers, judges, etc. is the principle I learned while growing up, and one that's worked for me so far. Like I said, I've been pulled over and questioned by police or state troopers often. I've been ticketed or given warnings, but I've never been arrested - even though in one case (when someone had swapped my tags out), there was actually a warrant out for "my" arrest (the warrant was actually for whoever the tags belonged to - for years of unpaid parking tickets - LOL). Anyway, I managed to get that one straightened out (still had to pay a hefty fine for not having my own tags on my own car - what the heck! Someone stole my tags!) but my point is that during even this stop, when I realized that I had been a victim of a crime myself but was in danger of being arrested - I maintained my composure and was cooperative with the officer.
It just wasn't all that difficult.
Hang on, you're a dangerous driver but you're making a case for superiority here because at least you're polite?
IMHO, jail is a last resort. If a person is not a suspect in a crime, not under the influence or doesn't have warrants, then there's no reason to drag them off to the Gulag, rude or not. Being rude is not a crime. Jail is not a place for non violent traffic offenders. Not in this country.
I'm sure the jail staff are not exactly thrilled at the hot water they find themselves in because Officer Ego couldn't handle an irritated driver without resorting to dumping her in their custody. Bet they wish he'd just issued the citation and sent her on her way.
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