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Just out of curiosity, why are you bending over backwards to defend this guy?
And in regards to your lobster example from earlier, it's not the same. Hunters and anglers who hire a guide in another state are still expected to follow that state's laws. If you kill an animal that's out of season, illegal to harvest or hunt/fish in an area that's off limits, you don't get to claim ignorance or blame it on the guide or charter if you break the fish and game laws. All reputable guides and charters will tell you to familiarize yourself with the laws before your trip. I don't see why it would be any different when hunting or fishing in another country.
"Sport hunting, as part of a sound wildlife management program, can provide benefits to conservation. However, given the situation in Tanzania in 2014 and 2015, and given the information available to the Service regarding elephants in Zimbabwe, the agency is not assured that the benefits of sport hunting will be realized in those countries."
Source: FWS.GOV
Wonder what that "information available" is? Well, here it is, direct from the US Government:
"Zimbabwe: When the Service announced the interim suspension on the import of elephant trophies from Zimbabwe on April 4, 2014, we based the decision on the limited information available to us at the time. Since the time of that announcement, the Government of Zimbabwe, non-government organizations, safari outfitters, professional hunter associations, and individuals provided the Service with additional information regarding the management and status of Zimbabwe’s elephant population. Based on review 1
of all available information, the Service is unable to find that the killing of an elephant whose trophy is intended for import would enhance the survival of the species
Do you really believe that this dentist, who has 43 big game kills to his name, would not know about the decision of the US government to ban the killing of elephants in Zimbabwe?
According to the guide, after Palmer killed Cecil, he wanted to kill an elephant, but they could not locate one "big enough" to suit Palmer.
He's just an all-around scumbag. He had to know it would be illegal to kill an elephant in Zimbabwe, according to US law. He thinks he's above the law. He thinks his money puts him there.
Just out of curiosity, why are you bending over backwards to defend this guy?
And in regards to your lobster example from earlier, it's not the same. Hunters and anglers who hire a guide in another state are still expected to follow that state's laws. If you kill an animal that's out of season, illegal to harvest or hunt/fish in an area that's off limits, you don't get to claim ignorance or blame it on the guide or charter if you break the fish and game laws. All reputable guides and charters will tell you to familiarize yourself with the laws before your trip.
Laws that hold an employer responsible for the acts of his employees.
Although this was another country, if the government of that country has similar laws, this man could be held responsible for a crime even if he did not know what his the guides were doing.
My 1st post to this thread, I wish a certain someone else could say the same.
I'm insulted reading over & over, that we're only outraged because Cecil had a name. That has NOTHING to do with my anger. I don't know the tame bears name that the Troy Gentry murdered, but I felt the same then as I do now. I detest ALL trophy hunters the same, white or not. Same as I do poachers, as I consider them one and the same. They kill for money or the gory glory.
There's a reason its called trophy hunting, that's what they call it when a murderer takes a body part or belonging from a human they've killed. Anybody who thinks it cool to have a previous breathing majestic animal head hanging on their wall, is not right in the head. Especially an animal that was killed JUST for the head/horns etc. As humans, shouldn't we be above that kind of behavior? Shouldn't we look out for and protect those who cannot protect themselves? (from us no less.)
As far as this man's extradition, he shouldn't have gone to a country and commit a crime that he had no intention of going back if asked to. And some of you saying we don't care about all the other problems going on in that Country: I for one am hurt and embarrassed that one of "us" went and did this. We cant control how they run their part of the world, but we should have laws in place HERE that's its illegal to trophy hunt...ANYWHERE in the world. Are we civilized or not? If raping small children were legal in a 3ed world county, would it be ok with you for an American citizen to go partake?
I don't wish death on this jerk or any of his kind, but I wouldn't cry if it happened. I'd think of all the future great beasts saved. Now if the dentist and one of my dogs were about to drown, you better believe I'm saving my dog. Some of you say human life is more important than an animals. I say SOME human life isn't. And no fear from some crazy poster killing this idiot, Casey Anthony, Zimmerman & OJ are still breathing and I heard they were at risk also.
(I don't know how to check for a thread post count for a particular poster, will someone do it for me please?)
I became somewhat interested in African lions, years back, after seeing The Ghost and the Darkness, which inspired me to read Patterson's book, to get the non Hollywood version of the story. That was followed by a plunge into finding out more about Tsavo lions, in particular. The more well known, maned lions, are nasty enough critters, in general, not very pleasant in temper many and habits. Attacks on humans are still quite common, in Africa, being as many people still live, tribally, in areas populated by predators. Leapords actually account for more such incidents than lions, though lions have done their share.
Tsavo lions have a rep, going back far further, and continuing today, than Patterson's twin male man killers. Animal biologists, studying these lions, have theorized that they are not as far removed from Pleistocenearge felines, as the more commonly known species. Tsavo lions are a seperate sub species from lions like Cecil was.
With the money this dentist "hunter" had to throw around, I wonder why he couldn't have set up a hunt to deal with a problem lion? One that needed to be hunted down. They are out there. Leapords too, and the latter, from my understanding of things, are a more "thrilling" adversary. Harder and more dangerous to track down than a lion, being as they favor heavy cover, and are greasy fast and sneaky. Hunting problem predators, particularly man killers, is much more...noble..a venture, should one have the desire for a trophy. We took the pelts of the problem mountain lions we had to hunt, not so much as a symbol of conquest, but as a reminder. The tracker we had with us took the meat. He swears to me, to this day, cats better than Elk. I'll take his word for it.
Anyway, as I figure it, shouldn't be any problem for these money bag , trophy types, to find a cat to hunt that needs hunting. Africa is a big place, and there's also India, where tigers turn man eater, as well. Logs of problem mountain lions right here in the US. Not so many man killers, but stock killers, and they are no easy peasy adversary. If these types want to hunt for the "thrills", why don't they hunt something that there's a reason to hunt? They aren't that hard to find.
I became somewhat interested in African lions, years back, after seeing The Ghost and the Darkness, which inspired me to read Patterson's book, to get the non Hollywood version of the story. That was followed by a plunge into finding out more about Tsavo lions, in particular. The more well known, maned lions, are nasty enough critters, in general, not very pleasant in temper many and habits. Attacks on humans are still quite common, in Africa, being as many people still live, tribally, in areas populated by predators. Leapords actually account for more such incidents than lions, though lions have done their share.
Tsavo lions have a rep, going back far further, and continuing today, than Patterson's twin male man killers. Animal biologists, studying these lions, have theorized that they are not as far removed from Pleistocenearge felines, as the more commonly known species. Tsavo lions are a seperate sub species from lions like Cecil was.
With the money this dentist "hunter" had to throw around, I wonder why he couldn't have set up a hunt to deal with a problem lion? One that needed to be hunted down. They are out there. Leapords too, and the latter, from my understanding of things, are a more "thrilling" adversary. Harder and more dangerous to track down than a lion, being as they favor heavy cover, and are greasy fast and sneaky. Hunting problem predators, particularly man killers, is much more...noble..a venture, should one have the desire for a trophy. We took the pelts of the problem mountain lions we had to hunt, not so much as a symbol of conquest, but as a reminder. The tracker we had with us took the meat. He swears to me, to this day, cats better than Elk. I'll take his word for it.
Anyway, as I figure it, shouldn't be any problem for these money bag , trophy types, to find a cat to hunt that needs hunting. Africa is a big place, and there's also India, where tigers turn man eater, as well. Logs of problem mountain lions right here in the US. Not so many man killers, but stock killers, and they are no easy peasy adversary. If these types want to hunt for the "thrills", why don't they hunt something that there's a reason to hunt? They aren't that hard to find.
I'd say that people like Palmer simply want to mount a head on the wall, the hunt itself or the other benefits of going after an animal that for whatever reason must be hunted just isn't part of him. Money allows him to do what he does and there are plenty of people, so it seems, willing to help him. So that is what he does.
Going after an animal that can and will kill you is quite different that one of those guided tour style hunts. There isn't much to going on a tour like adventure, having the game pointed out to you and then shooting it. It isn't hunting, it is shooting. The individual who tracks and then hunts and kills an animal that had to be killed for whatever reason is extremely dangerous. If you wound the animal you can quickly become the hunted and this has happened.
There are regions around the world where some dangerous animals are offered to hunters for little else other than to kill the animal to benefit the locals who are at high risk. Look what happened in Florida when hunters were provided incentives to hunt and kill large pythons and constrictors that were brought into the country illegally and set free.
Palmer isn't some noble do-gooder. He simply wanted to kill a lion. The story he might tell of it later would be something no one else would be around to counter, he could say it was the battle of his of the lion's life, who would say different, the people that took his $50,000?
Since about 60 or so lions are killed each year legally, he could have shot one of those. What we do not know is if that is what he thought he was doing. When mind reading becomes reality then we'll be able to say, until then, the legal system will have to suffice.
I became somewhat interested in African lions, years back, after seeing The Ghost and the Darkness, which inspired me to read Patterson's book, to get the non Hollywood version of the story. That was followed by a plunge into finding out more about Tsavo lions, in particular. The more well known, maned lions, are nasty enough critters, in general, not very pleasant in temper many and habits. Attacks on humans are still quite common, in Africa, being as many people still live, tribally, in areas populated by predators. Leapords actually account for more such incidents than lions, though lions have done their share.
Tsavo lions have a rep, going back far further, and continuing today, than Patterson's twin male man killers. Animal biologists, studying these lions, have theorized that they are not as far removed from Pleistocenearge felines, as the more commonly known species. Tsavo lions are a seperate sub species from lions like Cecil was.
I'd say that people like Palmer simply want to mount a head on the wall, the hunt itself or the other benefits of going after an animal that for whatever reason must be hunted just isn't part of him. Money allows him to do what he does and there are plenty of people, so it seems, willing to help him. So that is what he does.
Going after an animal that can and will kill you is quite different that one of those guided tour style hunts. There isn't much to going on a tour like adventure, having the game pointed out to you and then shooting it. It isn't hunting, it is shooting. The individual who tracks and then hunts and kills an animal that had to be killed for whatever reason is extremely dangerous. If you wound the animal you can quickly become the hunted and this has happened.
There are regions around the world where some dangerous animals are offered to hunters for little else other than to kill the animal to benefit the locals who are at high risk. Look what happened in Florida when hunters were provided incentives to hunt and kill large pythons and constrictors that were brought into the country illegally and set free.
Palmer isn't some noble do-gooder. He simply wanted to kill a lion. The story he might tell of it later would be something no one else would be around to counter, he could say it was the battle of his of the lion's life, who would say different, the people that took his $50,000?
Since about 60 or so lions are killed each year legally, he could have shot one of those. What we do not know is if that is what he thought he was doing. When mind reading becomes reality then we'll be able to say, until then, the legal system will have to suffice.
Yea, I know, all to well, how a problem predator can turn the tables. I was but 15 when I went on the first stock killer track we had to do. When we took him to ground, and ended it, the encounter left me shaking like a dog sh!77ing peach seeds. I suppose some rich, city type, probably isn't up for real hunting. When a dangerous, predator, animal gets sick of running, and turns to fight, they are...all in. Nothing is more dangerous than when it has nothing to lose. Same's true of humans.
Hard as bwana dentist is getting pushed, he's going to be there, before long. Even a cornered rat can be dangerous. Sooner or later, anything being pursued , has to stop running, and face their Alamo. Maybe, if he faces his bravely enough, bwana dentist can find some..redemption. We shall see....
My 1st post to this thread, I wish a certain someone else could say the same.
I'm insulted reading over & over, that we're only outraged because Cecil had a name. That has NOTHING to do with my anger. I don't know the tame bears name that the Troy Gentry murdered, but I felt the same then as I do now. I detest ALL trophy hunters the same, white or not. Same as I do poachers, as I consider them one and the same. They kill for money or the gory glory.
There's a reason its called trophy hunting, that's what they call it when a murderer takes a body part or belonging from a human they've killed. Anybody who thinks it cool to have a previous breathing majestic animal head hanging on their wall, is not right in the head. Especially an animal that was killed JUST for the head/horns etc. As humans, shouldn't we be above that kind of behavior? Shouldn't we look out for and protect those who cannot protect themselves? (from us no less.)
As far as this man's extradition, he shouldn't have gone to a country and commit a crime that he had no intention of going back if asked to. And some of you saying we don't care about all the other problems going on in that Country: I for one am hurt and embarrassed that one of "us" went and did this. We cant control how they run their part of the world, but we should have laws in place HERE that's its illegal to trophy hunt...ANYWHERE in the world. Are we civilized or not? If raping small children were legal in a 3ed world county, would it be ok with you for an American citizen to go partake?
I don't wish death on this jerk or any of his kind, but I wouldn't cry if it happened. I'd think of all the future great beasts saved. Now if the dentist and one of my dogs were about to drown, you better believe I'm saving my dog. Some of you say human life is more important than an animals. I say SOME human life isn't. And no fear from some crazy poster killing this idiot, Casey Anthony, Zimmerman & OJ are still breathing and I heard they were at risk also.
(I don't know how to check for a thread post count for a particular poster, will someone do it for me please?)
BRAVO! I could not have said this any better. When it was initially reported that a Spaniard had killed the lion, my first thought was Spaniards have a history of animal abuse (bull fighting, running of the bulls, etc.). When it was confirmed an American shot the lion, I was disgusted and angry that a fellow citizen has once again perpetuated the stereotype of the Ugly American.
BTW, Delta and American Airlines have banned transporting any animal parts on their planes. This action and the widespread outrage over Cecil's death is encouraging. It is my hope that one day trophy hunting will be seen as the abomination it is. Probably not in my lifetime, but eventually.
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Same as I do poachers, as I consider them one and the same. They kill for money or the gory glory.
)
Another face of evil
