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Yes, shooting back is different than upholding the other associated responsibilities of an infantryman, tanker or gun bunny. That being said I still think that there is a place for women on mission top secret special forces type operations. There is just no need to force the physically weaker on a gun crew and then declare that she will get help humping bullets when staffing is being cut, by design or enemy fire, leaving her gun non mission capable because of the lack of one soldier's strength.
I can't tell if you are for or against women in combat roles.
What specific training can help a woman carry a heavy load and dig ditches as effectively as men?
(in my opinion)
It depends on the physical structure of the female from what I can tell. I have a female Security Forces Commander friend who is HIGHLY respected by her troops (she's awesome). She is also a powerlifter. She used to compete, I don't think she does anymore, she's not as young as she used to be. So, if a female can compete in any of the extreme sport competitions, she is probably able to be an effective combat troop. What percentage of women can do that? Women who have the drive and discipline to maintain that level of strength? Because that's what it takes. The two women I knew (one Marine, one Air Guard Firefighter) were in continuous training to be able to keep their fitness level. Can all women do that? MAYBE but only at a certain age. Just because you strap on an Eagle, Globe and Anchor doesn't make you Superwoman.
Here's another observation: In the Air Guard (like all reserves), we can't draw retirement pay until age 60, which is when you are forced to get out (age limit). There were many men who continued to do the physical tasks of their jobs (maintaining aircraft) until age 60. They passed the fitness tests, etc. Zero women continued to work on the flightline until 60, dealing with weather and strenuous activity. 70 pound tool boxes up 35 steps to the flight deck (C5's)... NOT ME. I cut and run and was very effective in the job I moved to.
(I can't rep you anymore, dpm1. I love your thoughts. Thanks for considering mine.)
"How do we know if it women have never been in combat positions?"
One of the first woman Navy fighter pilots is now a commentator for Fox News. The US Navy is the only navy in the world that operates off carriers at night. It isn't easy. It isn't supposed to be easy. Now consider going to sea for five months out of touch and sitting on the bottom of the ocean with limited privacy. Nature would take its course.
To address the question above, Russia and Israel probably have the most experience with women in front line experience. Israel's wars are always brief. They win very quickly or die. Russia's wars are wars of attrition. I save quotes. Some are thousands of years old and some are simply from my friends. My shortest quote is from one of my door gunners: "War sux".
There are some extraordinary women in this world. They have proven that. However, it will be very expensive to adapt the military to meet women's needs and the failure rate will be very high. Our young people in college today need "safe zones" on college campuses where they can be safe from ever hearing an offensive WORD! Our young people today are obese and very weak compared to prior generations. Many high schools do not even have physical education. We are unable to recruit qualified people to serve in our armed forces. Our Army is smaller today than it was in 1939. We are in decline as a nation. We simply cannot afford to try new gimmicks with poor chances of success.
You cannot use a position such as pilot for a comparison to ground combat and say that women are capable of matching men. With Fly-By-Wire technology, the only stresses that the pilot faces is the G forces. They have to be in shape to handle it, but the requirements are relative to the size of the pilot and not any external equipment size. Actually, when you think about it, a female pilot should have an advantage over a male pilot in that the female will have less mass, allowing for the total weight of the aircraft to be slightly lower. It's not a significant difference considering the weight of the aircraft, but a difference just the same.
(in my opinion)
It depends on the physical structure of the female from what I can tell. I have a female Security Forces Commander friend who is HIGHLY respected by her troops (she's awesome). She is also a powerlifter. She used to compete, I don't think she does anymore, she's not as young as she used to be. So, if a female can compete in any of the extreme sport competitions, she is probably able to be an effective combat troop. What percentage of women can do that? Women who have the drive and discipline to maintain that level of strength? Because that's what it takes. The two women I knew (one Marine, one Air Guard Firefighter) were in continuous training to be able to keep their fitness level. Can all women do that? MAYBE but only at a certain age. Just because you strap on an Eagle, Globe and Anchor doesn't make you Superwoman.
Here's another observation: In the Air Guard (like all reserves), we can't draw retirement pay until age 60, which is when you are forced to get out (age limit). There were many men who continued to do the physical tasks of their jobs (maintaining aircraft) until age 60. They passed the fitness tests, etc. Zero women continued to work on the flightline until 60, dealing with weather and strenuous activity. 70 pound tool boxes up 35 steps to the flight deck (C5's)... NOT ME. I cut and run and was very effective in the job I moved to.
(I can't rep you anymore, dpm1. I love your thoughts. Thanks for considering mine.)
The problem becomes the military cannot exist by choosing from 1% of a population group. Even with these higher caliber women, the few that exist, even their wash out rate will be higher than the average males and there are far more average woman that will be enlisting getting injured and washing out. This drives up the cost for fielding individual soldiers with questionable efficacy.
Even those so called superwoman cannot escape the skeletal differences that we have. Their skeletal mass and structure is still that of a woman.
A vast majority of able bodied and sound minded young men can be whipped into military shape. What percent of women can? Less than 10%?
Just a personal anecdote I am a pretty average weight and height man (5ft 8 165), play sports (ice hockey goalie) frequently but dont hit the gym all to often. I dont know a single women in my life that could dig a ditch, carry heavy crap or compete in other tasks requiring physical labor. I think if most of us look at our personal connections we will find that this is almost universally true. If any of us play adult sports competitively look at the people you play with, notice something?
In my large personal cohort from fraternity life almost all of the men I associate with could be whipped into military shape, I have a hard time thinking of a single woman that could.
I am not and likely never will be in the military, tho I am of draft age. Good discussion.
Women in military aircraft can probably do the job as well and maybe even better than a Man. Front line infantry? No way. When your sisters and daughters die by the thousands you might want to return to the old days before Modern Feminists insisted on Gender Equality.
Why? What's the difference between that and our sons and brothers being slaughtered? Both are just as bad.
Guys who can't control sexual urges when a woman is around has a lot more problems that just that woman being in his presence.
The majority of combat soldiers are men under the age of 25 that haven't been laid in months. To think that these men won't get distracted by serving side by side with women while out in the field is pretty naive. Studies have shown that average man thinks about sex 34 times a day and that younger men tend think about sex 2-3 times that amount.
Women hate hearing this type of stuff because they think that it's just creeper guys that "can't control sexual urges" that get distracted by the opportunity for sex. It's not. The truth is that MOST men that age will make a move toward a woman in the right situation when given the chance. It's human nature. It doesn't mean they're going to rape a fellow female combat soldier or even have consensual sex with her. It just means that most men will develop different feelings and a different type of relationship with that female soldier that can and will cause a distraction while doing an extremely dangerous job.
It's not fair to endanger soldiers lives so the bleeding hearts back home can sing kumbaya while creating their own erroneous reality that make them feel good. War is brutal, and women as a collective whole have no place on the battle field being that they can be of more use performing other jobs in the service.
The majority of combat soldiers are men under the age of 25 that haven't been laid in months. To think that these men won't get distracted by serving side by side with women while out in the field is pretty naive. Studies have shown that average man thinks about sex 34 times a day and that younger men tend think about sex 2-3 times that amount.
Women hate hearing this type of stuff because they think that it's just creeper guys that "can't control sexual urges" that get distracted by the opportunity for sex. It's not. The truth is that MOST men that age will make a move toward a woman in the right situation when given the chance. It's human nature. It doesn't mean they're going to rape a fellow female combat soldier or even have consensual sex with her. It just means that most men will develop different feelings and a different type of relationship with that female soldier that can and will cause a distraction while doing an extremely dangerous job.
It's not fair to endanger soldiers lives so the bleeding hearts back home can sing kumbaya while creating their own erroneous reality that make them feel good. War is brutal, and women as a collective whole have no place on the battle field being that they can be of more use performing other jobs in the service.
THAT ^ is creepy. I raised two sons, they both learned appropriate behavior around women. You infer that women can't serve along side men in the military because men are so sex obsessed that they can't do their job? If that's true how do men in co-ed colleges ever manage to graduate, how do women and men function in the same office? Not sure where you dug up your data, but here's some that is sourced:
THAT ^ is creepy. I raised two sons, they both learned appropriate behavior around women. You infer that women can't serve along side men in the military because men are so sex obsessed that they can't do their job? If that's true how do men in co-ed colleges ever manage to graduate, how do women and men function in the same office? Not sure where you dug up your data, but here's some that is sourced:
when i was in, no women on ships. i had a discussion with a co-worker and asked if he thought I'd be safe on the carrier with the guys. his answer: I'd be the first one to rape you.
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I love your thoughts. Thanks for considering mine.)
Not sure where you dug up your data, but here's some that is sourced:
