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Not so well said. With out government over reach and clumsiness, Weaver would have remained just another nut case hanging out on the fringes of a rascist movement. Sadly, the government over reached and got clumsy:
- Weaver, after refusing multiple times, finally illegally "sawed off" a shot gun for an informant below the legal length- well maybe he did as it was at best .25" too short depending on where the barrell was said to start. This is arguably entrapment.
- Weaver then received incorrect information from an inexperienced court clerk about foreiture of his bond (his home in his case). This inflamed his paranoid idiocy that much more. Though he was not going to appear for court in either case, he left even more juiced up.
- The individual Marshalls who participated in the first "Weaver verse the world" gun battle had violated their orders regarding handling the case. They then lied about some of the circumstances in the shoot out to cover this up. This was not good.
- FBI later admitted that they had placed an official "Shoot in sight" order for Weaver. Such orders are not consistent with US law enforcement practices. An agent trying to carry this order out shot and killed Weaver's wife after missing Weaver. This was definetly not good..... .
Meanwhile back in the rest of Idaho where the good people were minding their business and going on with their lives------NOBODY but the Weavers were brutalized in what ultimately became a very sad comedy of errors that killed his wife and damn near killed the rest of the family. Why wasn't the FBI just shooting randomly at people as their detractors would have us believe? Do you think Randy was just a good citizen who had the unfortunate experience of being picked on by LEO in Idaho?
Look, here's my point, Randy, the "quiet family man" was up to no good just for the fact that he was drawn to the likes of Richard Butler and his band of misanthrope racist imbeciles, NO ONE else in his area was so inclined, and that fact when extrapolated by a factor of the presence of FBI, Kootenai county Sheriff's office, the Idaho State police, all keeping tabs on that rag tag bunch up at the lake, put Randy at risk, at a huge risk.
Hang around with those kinds of people today and more than likely you will end up being looked at very closely by law enforcement. That's the difference between minding your own business and teaming up with those who challenge authority while packing guns. Acting as though Randy was just another good o'l boy is just being as crazy as Randy himself.
Vicki Weaver died, mistakes were made, but she died because her idiot husband thought that things would always go smoothly, the lesson Randy learned, and as his neighbors will attest to, is, don't go looking for trouble, because sometimes trouble finds you and kicks you in the teeth, or kills your wife. Randy is definitely quiet man nowadays, he's not running around looking for any more idiots to join up with and----The feds have paid him no mind for years, it was all for nothing, and yes the feds made some bad decisions too, but knowing that is of little consolation to Vicki Weaver.............
And I am aware of SCOTUS being wrong on several occasions on several topics. I'm certainly not the only citizen to recognize error by the judges at different times.
Meanwhile back in the rest of Idaho where the good people were minding their business and going on with their lives------NOBODY but the Weavers were brutalized in what ultimately became a very sad comedy of errors that killed his wife and damn near killed the rest of the family. Why wasn't the FBI just shooting randomly at people as their detractors would have us believe? Do you think Randy was just a good citizen who had the unfortunate experience of being picked on by LEO in Idaho?
Look, here's my point, Randy, the "quiet family man" was up to no good just for the fact that he was drawn to the likes of Richard Butler and his band of misanthrope racist imbeciles, NO ONE else in his area was so inclined, and that fact when extrapolated by a factor of the presence of FBI, Kootenai county Sheriff's office, the Idaho State police, all keeping tabs on that rag tag bunch up at the lake, put Randy at risk, at a huge risk.
Hang around with those kinds of people today and more than likely you will end up being looked at very closely by law enforcement. That's the difference between minding your own business and teaming up with those who challenge authority while packing guns. Acting as though Randy was just another good o'l boy is just being as crazy as Randy himself.
Vicki Weaver died, mistakes were made, but she died because her idiot husband thought that things would always go smoothly, the lesson Randy learned, and as his neighbors will attest to, is, don't go looking for trouble, because sometimes trouble finds you and kicks you in the teeth, or kills your wife. Randy is definitely quiet man nowadays, he's not running around looking for any more idiots to join up with and----The feds have paid him no mind for years, it was all for nothing, and yes the feds made some bad decisions too, but knowing that is of little consolation to Vicki Weaver.............
Do you not know that his son Sammy was killed too?
No one minds paying grazing fees. The objection is in paying them to a Federal agency when the Feds do not own the land and the fees should go to the State.
Pretty simple. Might not seem like a big deal. But, it is. And someday it will matter to even those who never own an animal, or care to see empty land. It is about Federal agencies overstepping constitutional boundaries.
Something not many understand.......all they see ranchers are the bad guys!
Try this, drive to Yosemite and tell them: "I don't mind paying for an access pass to Yosemite, but I object to paying it to a federal agency" then just go on in without paying and drive around the park for the rest of the day. See how that works for you and then come back and tell us about it, ok?
Parks are not the same thing as grazing land......do you know how much the state could do with those fees paid. How does Washington DC know what the desert of Oregon needs? Plus, the government doesn't even know the tortoise they are trying to save actually eats off of the cattle manure, without it the tortoise would hardly live.
The government doesn't even realize a few 10-20 stray cows happen to eat stuff that they have left behind during clear cutting or unattended land. They happen to keep down fire danger, which keeps the cost down for taxpayers. My guess the ranchers are not letting their cattle just roam wherever, each cow happens to have a value.
I think it's odd that Randy Weaver was mentioned in a prior post, Randy was known locally as a colorful nut case who continuously ragged on the government that he claimed was "overstepping their boundaries". Most people know that our laws set boundaries for all, well, with the exception of Randy and his family apparently.
Loaded for Bear, Bible in hand, he hung around Richard Butler's Idaho compound hoping to fit in with another group of paranoids, The Church of Jesus Christ Christian/Aryan Nations. That group had it's share of miscreants to be sure, and Randy, unlike his neighbors and friends, went there to fraternize with these folks and became known to government agents, and that folks, is how Randy, "the quiet family man" came to that path that eventually led him to that bloodbath on Ruby Ridge.
Randy sacrificed his family in the same manner that "Lavoy" Finicum did by taking on the powers of a well armed and regulated government force, these men, lacking in any real education began to interpret the American constitution in a way that gave them an imagined "right" to whatever their heart's desired. Finicum is now dead, he will soon be forgotten. But the pain he has inflicted upon his family is not the work of a patriot, no sir, it is the result of idiocy and religious beliefs gone awry.
I'm left to wonder just how high the body count will be before these types realize they've taken the wrong path, one that's been noted for it's frequent sightings of the Grim Reaper. Bodies shot to hell with government bullets, scrambled minds, finally at rest, families grieving, the local communities sighing in relief, for what? Strapping on your guns and opening your mouth wide in order that all can hear your complaints, "making a stand," "making a statement," yelling about "overreach" while overreaching, and in the end you simply are one more statistic.
The lesson here should be that when one wants to really know the meaning in our constitution it may well be worth the time and effort to go to school and learn, oh, and leave your guns at home when you begin to shout out to the world all that you see in the constitution that doesn't agree with you...
Let me guess you read about this in the Inquirer.......your second paragraph is BS. People in Idaho know better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber
Meanwhile back in the rest of Idaho where the good people were minding their business and going on with their lives------NOBODY but the Weavers were brutalized in what ultimately became a very sad comedy of errors that killed his wife and damn near killed the rest of the family. Why wasn't the FBI just shooting randomly at people as their detractors would have us believe? Do you think Randy was just a good citizen who had the unfortunate experience of being picked on by LEO in Idaho?
Look, here's my point, Randy, the "quiet family man" was up to no good just for the fact that he was drawn to the likes of Richard Butler and his band of misanthrope racist imbeciles, NO ONE else in his area was so inclined, and that fact when extrapolated by a factor of the presence of FBI, Kootenai county Sheriff's office, the Idaho State police, all keeping tabs on that rag tag bunch up at the lake, put Randy at risk, at a huge risk.
Hang around with those kinds of people today and more than likely you will end up being looked at very closely by law enforcement. That's the difference between minding your own business and teaming up with those who challenge authority while packing guns. Acting as though Randy was just another good o'l boy is just being as crazy as Randy himself.
Vicki Weaver died, mistakes were made, but she died because her idiot husband thought that things would always go smoothly, the lesson Randy learned, and as his neighbors will attest to, is, don't go looking for trouble, because sometimes trouble finds you and kicks you in the teeth, or kills your wife. Randy is definitely quiet man nowadays, he's not running around looking for any more idiots to join up with and----The feds have paid him no mind for years, it was all for nothing, and yes the feds made some bad decisions too, but knowing that is of little consolation to Vicki Weaver.............
Tell us where you are getting your info and we can tell you how to get the correct story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose
Yesterday they were posting video of them all ready and willing for a fight. One screaming into the camera "come get some" and telling others to come help and to kill any LEO that tries to stop them.
Today they are "just camping" and "want to go home", and they "just don't understand".
Some are saying imposters were in the group. This would explain some of the bizarre behavior, they should have vetted people rather than calling for all to come and stand with them. Guess they didn't realize there are people out here looking to make people like them look like the weird ones. The just went about this the wrong way.
Last edited by wildflower82; 01-28-2016 at 11:06 PM..
Well no. See same video, Mark McConnell was there and he says they took off in their car leading to a chase, and then charging at the police, which led to a shooting.
Again, is video above from the evil media? Hmmm who to believe, an account from one of the occupiers who was arrested in that traffic stop or the guy on a message board who claims to have done his own research which resulted in a link to farmwars.info?
I'll take the guy who was there, thanks.
There is now, a satellite version of the shooting which shows a different story...
hmmmm, again, who to believe....? I don't know, but, what I do know is, we had all better reassess who we believe in...
He didn't have his hands up, nor was he on his knees. He charged around a barricade, jumped out of the truck, and had his hands in his jacket reaching for the 9mm that was found on his person.
He didn't have his hands up, nor was he on his knees. He charged around a barricade, jumped out of the truck, and had his hands in his jacket reaching for the 9mm that was found on his person.
I watched video several times. He first appears to come out of he vehicle with his hands up. However, he is dancing around and moving frantically while agents are standing around him with drawn guns. Finally, he appears to reach for something. I suspect he was probably "carrying". However, even if he wasn't "carrying", I could see how an agent could think he was reaching for a gun because of where he placed his hand.
What is missing from the movie is sound. He was not shot instantly when he got out of the vehicle and my tendency is to believe agents were probably yelling at him to get down on the ground or at least place his hands behind his back. Its obvious that if such commands were given that Finicum did not comply with them.
Context is extremely important here too. This man had just lead the police on a chase that ended only after he ran his car off the road into a snowbank attempting to run a road block. The authorities knew that these men were armed from the various news conferences they staged. It only takes a couple of seconds for someone reaching for a gun to shoot a policeman. When people call the police "trigger happy" following a shooting this is what they tend to forget. You can be killed by a gun in a matter of a couple of seconds if you don't react. This doesn't justify the police shooting at everyone. However, when people don't obey their commands and make gestures suggesting that they are pulling a gun, it gives the authorities justification to shoot. The whole encounter is unfortunate, but unless one believes strangers have the right to occupy government buildings indefinitely with firearms, one must conclude that Finicum and his associates are to blame for his death. I don't know if the authorities knew it was Finicum when he got out of his car. However, Finicum had given an interview to the press back on january 5th in which he said the authorities would never take him alive. If this was known and it was known the individual exiting the car was Finicum, its one more reason the authorities had to worry he might shoot.
In this world, we'll hear all kinds of garbage now. Finicum's family will probably try to sue the authorities for infringing on his civil rights. His compatriots will probably tell lies that can be debunked simply from watching the video. They will try to make him out to be a martyr. In the end though, the video tells the story.
Last edited by markg91359; 01-29-2016 at 07:17 AM..
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