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I totally get what your saying...but I honestly didn't see the guy drop his raised hands and reach into his pants or where ever. I'm going back to watch again.
Finicum sealed his own fate...LEO demonstrated extreme constraint before dispatching him. LEO made a lawful stop, Finicum then drove away, attempting to avoid a road block then immediately exited his vehicle, waving, not raising his hands...he then, in fact did reach towards his waist area.
At that point, or at any point, did anyone other than Finicum know his true intentions. What if, Finicum had been wrapped in explosives, simply waiting for the appropriate time to make his expressed wishes become reality. Fact being, his entire vehicle could have been a rolling explosive at that point...
Being a third generation rancher, I have never, nor do I need or want the likes of Funicum or the Bundy's to represent or defend my interests. this illegal, armed occupation being just one more attempt for Bundy to get a "little press". Notice who died...not Bundy or his idiot kids.
After all this, the remaining stragglers still think they are in a position to negotiate their terms of release..it won't happen ! My only wish was that the Feds had stopped this insanity in Nevada, and prosecuted Bundy and his followers, then and there. To these remaining stragglers...give it up...man up and deal with the consequences of your illegal actions...Its a little late in this fantasy of yours to now say "just kidding, let me go home"....game over...!
In NYC, when a gang member puts his hands in the air - but then reaches for "something" inside his pocket, the police (being sane) don't give him the benefit of the doubt....
I agree with you if this is the truth, however, I read somewhere that Randy Weaver was a member of the FBI at one point in his life, and quit....retired, or something...so then the FBI wanted him to come back to work for them and he refused, and they threatened him, b/c of what he knew...maybe that story was totally incorrect?
Randy Weaver attended the University of Northern Iowa to study criminal justice in hopes of becoming a FBI agent. He stated that the tuition was too costly and dropped out. Weaver was not the terrible bad guy the feds thought he may have been, BUT, he was a vocal opponent of the government in keeping with his and Vicki's fundamentalist religious views which many attribute to the "end times" kind of beliefs they held. This fear of things "worldly', a common term among the fanatical right wing fundamentalist groups, was the driving force in his and his wife's lives, arming their son at an early age and indoctrinating him in their fears was the driving force in the son's life also.
The feds compromised him by repeated requests to sell them an illegal firearm, which he did, then and there they had what they felt was reason to expect him to become an informer among the radicalized members of various armed anti government groups and law enforcement opponents in general, he refused but it was too late to extricate himself from the web of what he feared the most, government intervention in their lives. My point regarding the Ruby Ridge standoff was the fact that Randy and his need to become a spokesman for his beliefs got him in a jam, was the government wrong in killing his wife? Absolutely, but ask yourself if that is any consolation to Randy..
The moral of this tale is simple...Even if you hate the government, don't strap on your guns and go to town, going all John Wayne and loud talking about your disagreements with the feds, things happen when you become known to LEA's, mistakes can and do happen in the course of the feds/state/county investigating and corralling the most dangerous types out there who think Idaho is somehow a refuge for those not wanting to follow the laws.
Randy Weaver attended the University of Northern Iowa to study criminal justice in hopes of becoming a FBI agent. He stated that the tuition was too costly and dropped out. Weaver was not the terrible bad guy the feds thought he may have been, BUT, he was a vocal opponent of the government in keeping with his and Vicki's fundamentalist religious views which many attribute to the "end times" kind of beliefs they held. This fear of things "worldly', a common term among the fanatical right wing fundamentalist groups, was the driving force in his and his wife's lives, arming their son at an early age and indoctrinating him in their fears was the driving force in the son's life also.
The feds compromised him by repeated requests to sell them an illegal firearm, which he did, then and there they had what they felt was reason to expect him to become an informer among the radicalized members of various armed anti government groups and law enforcement opponents in general, he refused but it was too late to extricate himself from the web of what he feared the most, government intervention in their lives. My point regarding the Ruby Ridge standoff was the fact that Randy and his need to become a spokesman for his beliefs got him in a jam, was the government wrong in killing his wife? Absolutely, but ask yourself if that is any consolation to Randy..
The moral of this tale is simple...Even if you hate the government, don't strap on your guns and go to town, going all John Wayne and loud talking about your disagreements with the feds, things happen when you become known to LEA's, mistakes can and do happen in the course of the feds/state/county investigating and corralling the most dangerous types out there who think Idaho is somehow a refuge for those not wanting to follow the laws.
you make a lot of sense...thank you
and BTW, I watched the video again...guess I didn't want to see his hands go down, but when it was pointed out, I saw it....you'd think I'd learn to look and search and study better....
Finicum sealed his own fate...LEO demonstrated extreme constraint before dispatching him. LEO made a lawful stop, Finicum then drove away, attempting to avoid a road block then immediately exited his vehicle, waving, not raising his hands...he then, in fact did reach towards his waist area.
At that point, or at any point, did anyone other than Finicum know his true intentions. What if, Finicum had been wrapped in explosives, simply waiting for the appropriate time to make his expressed wishes become reality. Fact being, his entire vehicle could have been a rolling explosive at that point...
Being a third generation rancher, I have never, nor do I need or want the likes of Funicum or the Bundy's to represent or defend my interests. this illegal, armed occupation being just one more attempt for Bundy to get a "little press". Notice who died...not Bundy or his idiot kids.
After all this, the remaining stragglers still think they are in a position to negotiate their terms of release..it won't happen ! My only wish was that the Feds had stopped this insanity in Nevada, and prosecuted Bundy and his followers, then and there. To these remaining stragglers...give it up...man up and deal with the consequences of your illegal actions...Its a little late in this fantasy of yours to now say "just kidding, let me go home"....game over...!
yes, your correct, I watched it a 2nd time...guess my next question would be
1. What did he think he was doing
2. did he in fact have a gun holster on...and believe me, I realize the feds were unable to second guess, they did what they had to do.
The moral of this tale is simple...Even if you hate the government, don't strap on your guns and go to town, going all John Wayne and loud talking about your disagreements with the feds, things happen when you become known to LEA's, mistakes can and do happen in the course of the feds/state/county investigating and corralling the most dangerous types out there
I'm bewildered by those who think they can shoot their way out of a confrontation. Have they seen a SWAT squad? Spec Op team?
All this military talk and camo outfits (which by the way, given conditions in Oregon should be white) from men who never served a day in combat is ludicrous.
Seems they want to live in a country where one need not follow the laws. Ranchers can graze their cattle without paying a fee. People can threaten Law Enforcement Officers without any consequences.
There are countries where if you have enough ammunition, you can do whatever you want. Syria comes to mind, but I'm sure there are other spots on the globe. Strange they haven't all packed up and gone somewhere less oppressive.
Perhaps the "sovereign citizens" fear they wouldn't last a week in such a rough and tumble environment. Who knows?
The moral of this tale is simple...Even if you hate the government, don't strap on your guns and go to town, going all John Wayne and loud talking about your disagreements with the feds, things happen when you become known to LEA's, mistakes can and do happen in the course of the feds/state/county investigating
This I can agree with. I think Weaver was counting on the agencies investigating him to show the customary competenence and the customary common sense leeway given to a variety of blowhards. That did not happen.
It also did not help that Weaver's encounter with the government occurred at the tail end of the cold war. As the Soviet threat was receeding, there was some pressure to find a new threat to counter. That led to a large exaggeration of what, if any threat Weaver posed to the government. Weaver's taunts, boasts, and mostly veiled threats were scrutinized- and then hyped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould
There are countries where if you have enough ammunition, you can do whatever you want. Syria comes to mind, but I'm sure there are other spots on the globe. Strange they haven't all packed up and gone somewhere less oppressive. Perhaps the "sovereign citizens" fear they wouldn't last a week in such a rough and tumble environment. Who knows?
Sure, Afghanistan, Somalia, Zaire and eastern most Ukraine also offer very limited government and near unlimited personal freedom for the well armed. My bet is that few of the militia warriors would last long in those places.
At the end of the day, the militia guys out west and the union dudes in Wisconsin are allergic to any kind of change to what they perceive as their customary "rights". Both groups also have creative definition of "right" which seems to be:
Right (n): If something benefits me, then it is a "right". "Rights" cant be taken away..... .
yes, your correct, I watched it a 2nd time...guess my next question would be
1. What did he think he was doing
2. did he in fact have a gun holster on...and believe me, I realize the feds were unable to second guess, they did what they had to do.
Finicum had openly expressed his views, and state of mind, on social media just prior to this incident. Once he knowingly and willing drove away from that first lawful stop, further suggesting that he was not going to comply. He then intentionally attempted to avoid the road block, plowing into a snow bank and quickly exiting the vehicle...flailing his arms...having what appears to be a melt down.
As reported, he was armed, as were those other occupants of said vehicle. It was further reported and stated that Funicum was "shot in cold blood, on his knees with hands raised over his head". Both senior Bundy and his son, are alleged to have tried to spread that blatant lie.
In June 2014, after another "Bundy" incident, two LVMPD officers, and one civilian were in fact, "murdered" after two of Bundy's fanatical followers decided to do exactly as they threatened to do in Oregon, that being "taking thier fight to town". Some will argue that the two shooter involved were excommunicated from the fold, however the fact is, Bundy and his sons knowingly and intentionally rev up these unstable fanatics and then sit back and watch the show.
Their rhetoric is old...and they are simply provoking those who are looking for an excuse, any excuse, to make their worthless lives somehow find validation. If Mr Finicum thought his validation was to die on a lonely road, face down in a snow bank, so be it...Our country is based on law...there is a legal and proper avenue to address grievances without "arming up" and playing war games.
I feel bad for the citizens of this Oregon community...I wonder how you would feel if Bundy and his little band of fanatics showed up on your doorstep, unannounced and uninvited, causing the problems now created. All in the name of the U.S. Constitution....No thanks...!
I'm bewildered by those who think they can shoot their way out of a confrontation. Have they seen a SWAT squad? Spec Op team?
All this military talk and camo outfits (which by the way, given conditions in Oregon should be white) from men who never served a day in combat is ludicrous.
Seems they want to live in a country where one need not follow the laws. Ranchers can graze their cattle without paying a fee. People can threaten Law Enforcement Officers without any consequences.
There are countries where if you have enough ammunition, you can do whatever you want. Syria comes to mind, but I'm sure there are other spots on the globe. Strange they haven't all packed up and gone somewhere less oppressive.
Perhaps the "sovereign citizens" fear they wouldn't last a week in such a rough and tumble environment. Who knows?
My own personal experience with these militia guys has been that most of them are somehow lacking, and by that I mean they are lacking in so many ways that they often find themselves as followers of those who would sacrifice their friends for a little imagined glory. They are often found subscribing to magazines such as Soldier of Fortune, or other publications catering to an entire generation of lost men who by most measures aren't all that bad, just severely unbalanced. I had worked with more than a few of these guys throughout life. I actually liked many of them---until they turned to their favorite subject........
They are not generally the successful business types, more often, they are found to be dealing with a myriad of personal demons and often failed relationships, or jobless and alienated from a society they see as doing better than them. Angry at the way their lives have gone, they lash out at the first target that is offered up to them by the leader types who usually have an alternate and personal reason for taking on the government.
In the case of the Bundy's it was the money, the grazing fees they had successfully avoided for so long. They were hoping to make some waves, gain the public's support, then default on the BLM fees and walk away. Ammon Bundy should be taking some of the responsibility as a self appointed leader, but true to his creed, he most likely will be looking out for number one..Ahh, the pity of it all, I wish they'd all just stayed at the clubhouse, drinking beer, polishing their rifles, bitching about Uncle sam, then going home and leaving the revolution for another day...
Unarmed, yet carried the tools to burn and loot. I'd call destruction of property and arson equal to illegal occupation.
Both groups were criminals. The hypocrisy lies on the ones that call one group criminals and give a pass to the other.
This post was clearly made under the influence of a foreign substance. Next!
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