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Old 06-27-2019, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,932 posts, read 59,914,733 times
Reputation: 98359

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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
You got it!

You hear this all the time whenever a woman is assaulted. It is very common.
"She shouldn't have been walking alone at night."
"She shouldn't have worn that short dress."
"She should have fought back."

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Old 06-27-2019, 07:28 PM
 
3,106 posts, read 1,768,714 times
Reputation: 4558
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
If we blame the victim, then we convince ourselves it was their fault, and thus because we are ourselves so wise, we can assure ourselves WE would never have that experience.
I think part of what we are seeing here is people who don't think what the staff did to Mr. Kirschner was wrong, hence if he objected the problem lies with him. Assuming some of them work in healthcare, that is why such things happen. The perpetrators perhaps saw their fun as trumping Mr. Kirschner's dignity; that him being needlessly exposed shouldn't matter because they're "professionals" and anything they do must be accepted as appropriate. Perhaps it is desensitization, perhaps voyeurism is seen as an entitlement of the job. Whatever it is, it was wrong and there is no way to justify it as being acceptable professional behavior.
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Old 06-27-2019, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
30,585 posts, read 25,144,036 times
Reputation: 50802
Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post
"She shouldn't have been walking alone at night."
"She shouldn't have worn that short dress."
"She should have fought back."

Exactly.
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Old 06-28-2019, 01:05 AM
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
16,066 posts, read 21,130,473 times
Reputation: 43616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
I think part of what we are seeing here is people who don't think what the staff did to Mr. Kirschner was wrong, hence if he objected the problem lies with him. Assuming some of them work in healthcare, that is why such things happen. The perpetrators perhaps saw their fun as trumping Mr. Kirschner's dignity; that him being needlessly exposed shouldn't matter because they're "professionals" and anything they do must be accepted as appropriate. Perhaps it is desensitization, perhaps voyeurism is seen as an entitlement of the job. Whatever it is, it was wrong and there is no way to justify it as being acceptable professional behavior.
I feel like we are going off on a tangent here. I have yet to see anyone say they approve of inappropriate behavior, whether it's from 'professionals' or otherwise. What I have noted is that some people are wondering if the incident happened as described or whether it's been embellished to make a more compelling story.
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:29 AM
 
3,106 posts, read 1,768,714 times
Reputation: 4558
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
I feel like we are going off on a tangent here. I have yet to see anyone say they approve of inappropriate behavior, whether it's from 'professionals' or otherwise. What I have noted is that some people are wondering if the incident happened as described or whether it's been embellished to make a more compelling story.
People often do embellish things and it wouldn't shock me if perhaps some of Mr. Kirschner's account of events has some embellishment in at least the choice of words (yanked vs removed for example), but does that matter? The only difference between yanking it off and removing it is how one perceived the action. The net effect is the same. The core of the story is that his genitals were exposed as part of a sexual prank on a new staff member before the doctor arrived in the room. Whether it was 2 minutes before the doctor arrived or 10 doesn't matter, though even then odds are the doctor wouldn't have removed the cover the instant he walked into the room. Regardless, he was needlessly exposed in any event. The clinic is not disputing the core facts of the matter.

The bottom line is the staff used Mr. Kirschner without his permission as part of a sexual prank, and their choice of him as a prop proved to be very poor indeed given his history of childhood sexual abuse. They of course didn't know that when choosing Mr. Kirschner, but maybe they should have thought through the potential ramifications before they acted. They're "professionals" after all. If the people who work at the clinic really thought a male sitting there exposed to a female newbie was just innocent fun they should have gotten one of the male doctors or other male staff members (if there are any) to play the role of patient rather than randomly choose a patient who did not volunteer for the role.
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