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I was completely confused by how the grandfather could make the argument he didn't know the window was open. And after seeing that he DID know it was open, it all becomes kind of clear. He got careless. And that sweet baby is dead because of it.
There were so many people saying it was clearly an accident and the grandfather shouldn't be charged, and hasn't the family been punished enough? But no, they haven't. Chloe was not her family's chattel - she was an independent little person whose rights should be represented by our legal system, regardless of what her parents desire.
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"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 7 days ago)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrzDefector
I was completely confused by how the grandfather could make the argument he didn't know the window was open. And after seeing that he DID know it was open, it all becomes kind of clear. He got careless. And that sweet baby is dead because of it.
There were so many people saying it was clearly an accident and the grandfather shouldn't be charged, and hasn't the family been punished enough? But no, they haven't. Chloe was not her family's chattel - she was an independent little person whose rights should be represented by our legal system, regardless of what her parents desire.
I think that's why the grandfather is being charged.
Because the legal arm of the law has decided to ignore the parent's wishes and treat Chloe independently. So what you're wishing for is being done.
Well, that does make more sense than claiming they love Gramps so much that they can't bear for him to be punished. But still, "We left you in charge, and you failed us" would seem to be a more likely chain of thought than "We left you in charge and you did nothing wrong."
They chose to go on this cruise. If it's the cruise ship's fault, it is partly their fault as well for choosing to take a cruise with a toddler.
It's the grandfathers fault 99% but blame can also go to the parents for their poor judgement trusting him with Chloe. I hate placing any blame on the parents; especially since they're grieving their loss but they knew grandpa; I really should say step-grandfather. I'd really love to know how long he's been a part of the family.
I'd really love to know if he was drinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaTwo
After watching these videos it looks to me like he knew very well the window was open and actually leaned out of it for a couple seconds before he picked his granddaughter up. Then with her in his arms he dangled her out the window for quite a while before he dropped her. This guy is crazier and more guilty than what I thought originally. What the hell was he thinking?!!!
I finally found an article that says he leans his upper torso out the window for 8 seconds then picks Chloe up and over the wooden rail towards the open window; she was there for approximately 34 seconds then she falls.
.... Royal Caribbean says in a motion to dismiss that CCTV footage shows Anello leaning out of the window before picking up Chloe.
"When he arrives at the open window, and while Chloe is on the floor, Mr. Anello leans his upper-torso over the wooden railing and out of the window frame for approximately eight seconds," reads the motion to dismiss, which was filed on January 8. "Because Mr. Anello had himself leaned out the window, he was well aware that the window was open."
Anello then picked Chloe up and lifted her "over the wooden rail towards the open window," it says.
Royal Caribbean says Anello stayed in front of the open window and exposed Chloe to it "for approximately 34 seconds at which time she unfortunately fell."
a lawsuit the parents of Chloe Wiegand filed in December, accusing the operator of negligence in her death by allowing an 11th floor window in the ship’s children’s play area to be open.
"This is a case about an adult man, who, as surveillance footage unquestionably confirms: (1) walked up to a window he was aware was open; (2) leaned his upper body out the window for several seconds; (3) reached down and picked up Chloe; and (4) then held her by and out of the open window for thirty four seconds before he lost his grip and dropped Chloe out of the window,” the court filing states.
"His actions, which no reasonable person could have foreseen, were reckless and irresponsible and the sole reason why Chloe is no longer with her parents," the cruise line said.
Michael Winkleman, an attorney for the girl's family, said that Royal Caribbean's motion is “baseless and deceptive,” The Indianapolis Star reported.
What really sticks out to me in this article is he is saying I kind of relive it all the time. He kind of relives it? Really? If it was me I'd be reliving it every second of every day for the rest of my life. I don't think I could live with myself if I caused someone's death, especially a child's due to my own stupidity!
Now his attorney is asking for all of the video to be released, saying the ones they released are deceptive so it sounds like they have viewed the videos that were released. That was a big question of mine. They're saying someone inspected the ship on January 10th; they found 13 cameras.
Anello later claimed that his colorblindness may have been a contributing factor in the heartbreaking incident, leaving him unable to distinguish between the ship’s tinted windows and the open windows.
“I thought there was glass. I still say it to myself, it’s just, I kind of relive it all the time, and I just thought there was glass there. I don’t know what else to tell you,” he had previously said of the incident.
In December, the Wiegand family filed a lawsuit against Royal Caribbean, questioning why the window was open, and with no sufficient warning or signage.
Quote:
“It is clear that Royal Caribbean’s tactic is to blame Chloe’s grandfather rather than to accept that Royal Caribbean did not implement industry standards for toddler safety aboard its ships which ultimately led to Chloe’s tragic death,” Winkleman said, in part, in a statement shared with Fox 43.
Winkleman further claimed that Royal Caribbean was supplying “two deceptive views from its CCTV cameras.”
On Friday, attorneys for the family filed two further motions: one to strike the video footage, claiming the "the authenticity of the videos" had not been established; and another asking the court to make Royal Caribbean "to produce all video footage from all of the cameras," of which Winkleman had said there were 13 in total.
Newly surfaced video shows the grandfather of 18-month-old Chloe Wiegand pop his head out of a cruise-ship window and then dangle her over its ledge
Royal Caribbean said the video shows Anello then lifting his granddaughter “over the wooden rail to the open window,” holding her within danger’s reach “for approximately 34 seconds at which time she unfortunately fell.
“The only reasonable conclusion from the video is that Mr. Anello knew the window was open before picking up Chloe,” the court papers say. “He nonetheless lifted the child over the wooden rail and the open window for a considerable period, recklessly endangering her life. There was no ‘hidden danger’ — Mr. Anello knew the window was open.”
“Royal Caribbean has premised its defense in this case and its blame on Chloe’s grandfather by supplying two deceptive views from its CCTV cameras to the court and the Puerto Rico authorities,” lawyer Jacqueline Garcel told the outlet in a statement.
please just stop with this. A child does not know it. A child doesnt have the capacity to think things through like that. They see another dog and remember what happened to them. You have zero insight or empathy for children. You are completely wrong with your posts.
Well, that does make more sense than claiming they love Gramps so much that they can't bear for him to be punished. But still, "We left you in charge, and you failed us" would seem to be a more likely chain of thought than "We left you in charge and you did nothing wrong."
They chose to go on this cruise. If it's the cruise ship's fault, it is partly their fault as well for choosing to take a cruise with a toddler.
And it's possibly what they're thinking, privately. But I'd never say it out loud; I'm sure they know he's hurting enough, without their accusations.
Besides, as someone pointed out, "we left you in charge and you failed us" suggests they could be partly to blame for leaving him in charge. But if he's completely blameless, so are they.
I was completely confused by how the grandfather could make the argument he didn't know the window was open. And after seeing that he DID know it was open, it all becomes kind of clear. He got careless. And that sweet baby is dead because of it.
There were so many people saying it was clearly an accident and the grandfather shouldn't be charged, and hasn't the family been punished enough? But no, they haven't. Chloe was not her family's chattel - she was an independent little person whose rights should be represented by our legal system, regardless of what her parents desire.
I was one of the ones saying it was an accident but that was before we were given the video and screen captures where he leans his upper body out of the window.
I think the parents also stood beside him because he's been adamant that he didn't see that the window was open. They weren't there, they only had his words saying he didn't see the window open
I'd love to know how they feel now that the video of him leaning out has been released.
Grandpa's attorney is saying this view is deceptive. I don't know how it could be deceptive so would leave to hear why they think it is.
I'd like to know what his attorney thinks of this view
I'd like to know which camera view is not deceptive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC
So this is interesting. I had a long conversation with a friend, about her husband's frontal lobe degeneration disease (called FTD). It's diagnosed usually in a person's 40's, or early 60's. Those two time frames.
The frontal lobe of the brain is responsible for judgement and behavior. The very first symptom is an episode of shocking lack of judgement, in a person who otherwise exhibited good judgement. The next stage is inability to hold a job, because the person no longer gets along with people well and is continuing to exhibit poor judgement. At that stage, friends and family often leave, because they've gotten fed up. THEN, is usually when the diagnosis occurs, and close family comes back to help out although the person by this time is intolerably rude and has zero filter although they don't have typical dementia symptoms of being forgetful or disoriented.
Anyway, it struck me today as I was rethinking the conversation with regards to grandpa here. It's not terribly uncommon, although isn't usually diagnosed quickly because otherwise, to casual observers, they seem fine. Only close associates complain that something is very, very wrong.
I wonder.
I do wonder if this will end up applying to his very bad judgement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT
My take? They do need to place blame somewhere, they're angry at their daughter's death. They cannot, absolutely cannot bring themselves to blame grampa, because they are the ones who left him in charge, meaning they'd then feel some of the blame for her death too. That's probably more guilt than they can bear, so yeah, they are deflecting. Maybe it's also about money, maybe not, but I am convinced that a huge part of it is that they want somebody, anybody, to point a finger at that absolves them of any part in the chain of events that led to that little girls death. I do agree with Clara that it's a self protective measure resulting from the trauma they've experienced.
I think they weren't blaming grandpa because they were going by his story of events because they weren't there. I'm going to be shocked if they continue to stand behind him after all these video's have come out.
I'm not arguing with you. He was totally at fault. IMO, he held her out there (which was wrong to begin with) and became fatigued holding her, and his strength gave way.
But they will still sue, wrongly believing they are getting justice.
Oh I wasn’t arguing either, only going off your post re: the reason the parents are suing.
Well you never know what a skilled attorney can do in the way of manipulating a jury. It’s hit or miss. After all OJ got away with a double murder.
Would have had a different verdict if there was video. :-)
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