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Agreed, law enforcement would have control over the tape. God forbid that should ever be made public.
Yet, someone from the media will file a FOIA demand, and this awful video will be shown publicly, with a puny disclaimer, "WARNING! Some content may not be appropriate for all viewers. Viewer discretion is advised." to CYA.
Yet, someone from the media will file a FOIA demand, and this awful video will be shown publicly, with a puny disclaimer, "WARNING! Some content may not be appropriate for all viewers. Viewer discretion is advised." to CYA.
Betcha.
Even if that doesn't happen, I'm guessing Royal Carribean does not ever want a jury to see the video.
You don't understand how business works. Companies settle all the time because it's much easier and cheaper to settle for $750,000 than it is to spend $3 million fighting it, even if they win. It's done every day, just most of the cases aren't publicized.
This is it, and it annoys me tbch because as harsh as it sounds, imo, this family doesn't deserve anything from the cruise line. I firmly believe the cruise line has zero fault here, this was all the grandpa's fault. "Children's play area, who has open windows on a cruise ship?" - ask/make the points all you want family, the fact is that area was totally safe in this regard for that child until she was lifted to the railing/window and placed there so she could bang on the glass [that wasn't there]. That was not the intended use of the railing OR windows, the grandfather misused the area and the kid is dead for that reason.
RCCL is not at fault for having very obviously tinted windows that slide open. If they ARE, then they're at fault for any other obvious and ridiculous misuse of any area that resulted in serious injury or death and should just shut down cruising because anyone could potentially misuse their ship and make bad, fatal decisions that could remotely be pinned on RCCL because, basically, the ship exists in the condition it does.
The family deserves nothing but unfortunately settling is way cheaper and less time consuming than litigating, so they'll probably get a nice payday but either way it won't bring their daughter back. I would love to see the cruise line litigate this because I honestly think they'd win and they probably know it but in the end it probably isn't worth the higher cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
Well, there is still the question of why RC refuses to turn over the video to the attorney. If what actually happened as shown in the video and it exonerates them then why are they sitting on it?
Like I said previously, RCCL doesn't have to turn anything over to anyone until a lawsuit is actually filed. Threats of a suit, parents going on TV and to the media, means nothing until a claim is filed. Then with discovery, the video is likely a required initial disclosure. But until then, RCCL doesn't have to hand anything over to an attorney blaming them for what's obviously simply a bad mistake by the grandfather. If I were RCCL I wouldn't hand it over until - if ever - I was legally required to, either. They have no obligation to give their documents, videos, files, info, etc. over to any attorney asking who has not yet started an actual lawsuit and has gone to the media almost immediately to blame them. RCCL might be annoyed, and rightfully so imo. Maybe they're being petty, I mean they COULD hand it over if they wanted to though it might be a bad idea simply because they don't have to and it's bad precedent to start giving any attorney representing a family who was on the ship what they ask for in the cruise line's possession without an actual suit, but I can't even blame them for waiting for an actual suit.
I doubt the video shows anything that makes the cruise line look bad. We know the grandpa lifted the kid to the railing to bang on glass and didn't know the window was open. Well, every voyage this ship has had since it launched what, a decade ago? more?, has had these windows that slide open and no one's managed to get hurt or die falling from them before. The video will show the windows in normal, non-dangerous condition and the grandpa misusing the area by placing a toddler on a railing way higher than she can reach to let her hit glass he somehow thought was there. I'm sure the video makes it obvious the window was open to the vast majority of people with eyes, because every other video or photo I've seen from that ship makes it obvious what windows are and aren't open, no matter how many here argue otherwise.
I feel awful for the family. I can't even imagine how they must feel. And that poor baby; I hope it happened so fast that she didn't suffer. The story is just so horrific but it isn't the cruise line's fault. This is solely the grandfather's fault. Whether or not the window was open or closed is irrelevant. It was high enough off the floor that no small child could possibly be in danger in any way. The grandfather liftedChloe up and placed her directly in danger's path. I doubt he intended any harm but it was an incredibly bad decision on his part. I feel so bad for Chloe; toddlers know nothing about danger and the adult that should've kept her safe failed to do so. I don't know if the family can ever find healing but I agree that they need ALOT of grief counseling.
I'm seeing this quote from the attorney in this article:
Quote:
"There's no doubt this was an accident. Really the singular question is, were there safety measures that could have been in place and should have been in place?” the lawyer told Today on Monday. “If they were in place, again, there would have been no tragedy."
Well, what types of safety measures? No longer opening windows which opened for over a decade of trips with no issues? Putting warning signs that the windows open? (Then how many signs do we put, because he may not have seen the sign if it wasn't in the right spot/if there weren't enough?) Making it even more obvious that the windows are tinted so if you see a not blue tint, then the window's open? I mean seriously, this guy is why people hate lawyers.
Sometimes people do dumb things and mistakes happen and no one else is to blame but the person who made the mistake. The grandfather doesn't deserve anything other than saying about him "yeah it's his fault, very tragic it's really awful for him," but blaming the cruise line won't make it any less the grandpa's fault. This has to be a coping mechanism for the family and an attempt at some quick "fame" and/or money from the suit/settlement for the lawyer.
Honestly, with this line of arguing, what's next? Having balconies is dangerous because people may climb on them then fall? Serving alcohol is bad because some people don't know their limits/don't care then get hurt or climb on their balconies and go overboard? I'm sure these arguments have been tried but are we really going to go with it? Not me. You can only do so much to protect people from their own stupidity. One person truly can at least attempt to ruin things for all.
RCCL is not at fault for having very obviously tinted windows that slide open. If they ARE, then they're at fault for any other obvious and ridiculous misuse of any area that resulted in serious injury or death and should just shut down cruising because anyone could potentially misuse their ship and make bad, fatal decisions that could remotely be pinned on RCCL because, basically, the ship exists in the condition it does.
Yes, exactly. This is what I was trying to say, but you said it much better than I did. You could trip on the stairs, choke on your dinner, drown in the pool (although now ships are hiring life guards), fall off any open deck or balcony, etc.
This reminds me of a story from last year; a honeymooning couple went zip lining as a shore excursion. There was a terrible accident and the husband died. The wife/widow sued Royal Caribbean because it was one of their organized shore excursions.
The video will show the windows in normal, non-dangerous condition and the grandpa misusing the area by placing a toddler on a railing way higher than she can reach to let her hit glass he somehow thought was there. I'm sure the video makes it obvious the window was open to the vast majority of people with eyes, because every other video or photo I've seen from that ship makes it obvious what windows are and aren't open, no matter how many here argue otherwise.
Let's not forget, not only did he place the baby on the railing, he also let go of her. It is mind boggling to me how this family places the blame on any one other than the grandfather. I know he meant no harm and I sincerely feel for him and the family, but his judgement is questionable on many levels.
There have been instances where a passenger fell into the sea after foolishly attempting to climb from one balcony to another. I wonder if any families successfully sued the cruise line in those cases.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaGWS
Let's not forget, not only did he place the baby on the railing, he also let go of her. It is mind boggling to me how this family places the blame on any one other than the grandfather. I know he meant no harm and I sincerely feel for him and the family, but his judgement is questionable on many levels.
There have been instances where a passenger fell into the sea after foolishly attempting to climb from one balcony to another. I wonder if any families successfully sued the cruise line in those cases.
I think that's a different thing.
To take a risk, knowing what the risks are, is different from perceiving the window was closed when it was actually open.
To take a risk, knowing what the risks are, is different from perceiving the window was closed when it was actually open.
I still cannot fathom how someone standing within a foot of a window (especially a cruise ship window) cannot tell whether it is opened or closed. I call BS on his story.
I still cannot fathom how someone standing within a foot of a window (especially a cruise ship window) cannot tell whether it is opened or closed. I call BS on his story.
How do you know he was "standing" there? We know there's video. The SJ authorities were willing to show it to the parents. Someone supposedly close to the investigation told a reporter that the video makes clear what happened.
That accident almost certainly happened in a second. No 18-month old can balance herself on a rounded hand railing even for the "second" the grandfather let go. His body would keep her from falling backwards in that interim; the open window did not protect her from pitching outward.
IMHO the video will show a grandfather either holding the child or reaching down to scoop her from the floor then lifting her in front of him as he approached the window wall. They had just left the dining room. She was talking to him (she "asked" to be placed there). Seeing a closed window wall to his right he must have turned and by horrible random accident ended up at the one open space.
IF the video does show him "standing" by the window for any amount of time after her feet reached the railing - even another second - then, yes, that would turn the accident into sometime horribly deliberate. For how could he not then know it was open? But there's just no evidence of that (an out-of-control grandfather) from anything that's been reported by the family or those who know him.
Folks keep imaging themselves in the scenario - staring at windows, perceiving which are open, which closed. Standing in front of open windows. I just don't think it happened that way, especially with the continued lack of charges and the family and local community support. To my knowledge, nothing but good words for the grandfather.
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but it isn't the cruise line's fault. This is solely the grandfather's fault. Whether or not the window was open or closed is irrelevant. It was high enough off the floor that no small child could possibly be in danger in any way. The grandfather lifted Chloe up and placed her directly in danger's path. I doubt he intended any harm but it was an incredibly bad decision on his part. I feel so bad for Chloe; toddlers know nothing about danger and the adult that should've kept her safe failed to do so. I don't know if the family can ever find healing but I agree that they need ALOT of grief counseling.
